Horrific 727 crash

[flyboy0681]

This happened down in Colombia yesterday. Interesting how well documented it was.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9edi2CtZyTw

 

Edited December 21, 2016 by flyboy0681

[Bob_Belville]

Comment refers to overshot but it looks more like a take off. Perhaps overweight for runway, DA.  

[Joe Zuffoletto]

My wife and I went to Colombia almost two years ago and I was surprised by the large number of 727 cargo planes down there.

[carusoam]

Incredibly well documented by two people standing on either side of the centerline.

The plane doesn't drag the tail, and clears the road and the fence.

the videos stay pretty well on focus during the event.  Nice shot of the elevator as it goes by.

Strange...

Prayers for the lost pilot and crew.

Best regards,

-a-

[flyboy0681]

Then we have this gem also from yesterday.

 

 

[gsengle]

Oh my


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[Guest]

That's pretty scary.

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

I noticed they didn't give him a phone number to call, is there going to be someone following up on why they kept ignoring instructions?

[jonhop]

Super scary... I'm wondering why she kept giving him instructions to turn south or southbound now... around the time they were extremely low over terrain. Why not an exact heading of 180.

[gsxrpilot]

I'm gonna lay this one on the controller. She kept mis-speaking and the quickly correcting herself. That makes it extremely difficult for a non-native English speaker to understand. If she's gonna work Approach Control in an area with that much international traffic, she has to learn to speak clearly.


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[Hector]

I'm gonna lay this one on the controller. She kept mis-speaking and the quickly correcting herself. That makes it extremely difficult for a non-native English speaker to understand. If she's gonna work Approach Control in an area with that much international traffic, she has to learn to speak clearly.

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As I was listening to that exchange I began to wonder if her instructions to turn "southbound" instead of "turn left heading 180" was contributing to the confusion. It maybe that for a non-native speaker a generalization like "southbound" just didn't compute. On top of that correcting herself didn't help if the guy was already having trouble understanding her instructions .

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[gsengle]

Yeah I'd expect in a situation like this a good controller would stop being casual and conversational and start using crisp professional instructions like "turn left heading 180".


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[Hank]

"Immediately" would have been a better choice than "turn southbound NOW" too. She never did sound very urgent. But the pilots never seemed to turn when instructed the first three or four times, either.

[gsxrpilot]

Even the phrase "turn southbound" isn't proper English. "Turn South" would work, but the use of casual english is very difficult for a non-native speaker to follow.

[Jerry 5TJ]

It must be challenging to run a crowded screen full of aircraft when one of them is wandering about & ignoring instructions.

 

[FlyDave]

I listened to that recording and it sounded like - for whatever reason - the pilots were simply not complying with the controllers instructions. The urgency in her voice (2 or three times) should have told them something was amiss and they needed to take action right away. Wasn't their TAWS going off while they continued to head right for the mountains? (OK, I may be confused but TAWS warning - CLIMB ASSHOLE!!!)

This scared the hell out of me just listening to it!

[flyboy0681]

It's been reported that there was one survivor from the 727 crash but it doesn't appear that he was part of the flight crew. The more I watch the footage the more I walk away puzzled. 

[flyboy0681]

While searching for more information I came across something eerie. Here's video taken from the same vantage point back in October. No registration is seen so I can't determine if it was the same aircraft.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

2 minutes ago, flyboy0681 said:

While searching for more information I came across something eerie. Here's video taken from the same vantage point back in October. No registration is seen so I can't determine if it was the same aircraft.

That's scary but about what one might expect, I guess - 727 freighter, 5900' runway, possibly overloaded. Do we have anyone here with 727 experience? How much runway required at max t.o. weight?

[ArtVandelay]

One thing I'll say, it's nice to see people go out the airport just to watch planes.

[cliffy]

I don't have my performance books near so I can't get true numbers but all that goes out the window if they are overweight.

A little temp rise, a little extra weight (from "guesstimated weights) and you get into trouble if you are runway limited.

The plumes you see at the wingtips in the turn are from fuel dumping. It tells me they knew they had a problem, maybe an engine problem. If they were airborne and climbing even slowly they wouldn't need to dump (unless terrain intervened).  Why they were in the turn I have no idea.  Basic aerodynamics, you lose lift in a turn (wingspan). 

Just as an aside on the old 727-100s-  The tailskid was electric driven. If it didn't retract on gear up it affected range by (IIRC) 14% !!

On corporate, long range 727-100s way back when, if they were going over water it was sometimes known to pull the CB for the tailskid before landing (keeping it up on gear down) so that on the next takeoff for the over water leg it wouldn't be extended and possibly fail and suffer the drag penalty thereby not being able to continue on the over water trip where you needed that range.   

[Bravoman]

On 12/21/2016 at 10:21 PM, gsengle said:

Yeah I'd expect in a situation like this a good controller would stop being casual and conversational and start using crisp professional instructions like "turn left heading 180".


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I don't think I have ever heard such an instruction by a controller, i.e. without a numerical course heading. Can't be in compliance with controller's handbook. I agree that there was probably a cultural disconnect and if there was an accident I think some causation would have been put on ATC.

[gsengle]

The controller was suspended if that indicates anything...


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[flyboy0681]

I had a reminder set for today to check if a report on this incident had been published. While not final, a preliminary report has been issued..

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/crashed-aerosucre-727-attempted-take-off-in-tailwind-434354/

 

Here's the video once again

 

[Hank]

Would a 4 knot tailwind component make a big difference to an airliner? At virtually sea level? Although the field is short (1800m = 5900 feet, longer than I thought).