Garmin G5 Review

[bradp]

It’s an option for the experimental G5 AI.  I’m about 99% sure that the STC for certificated aircraft requires a WAAS GPS source.  This is because the AHRS in the AI is GPS aided and runs in some sort of recessionary mode without GPS signal.  The source can be antenna, RS-232 via GPS or RS-232 via a GTX-3X5 transponder.  

[bradp]

Here’s the latest STC installation manual- definitely required.  As mentioned previously the antenna needs to meet the specifications below.  I suppose you could check to see if the glareshield antenna meets the requirements and permanently mount it, but your IA is most likely not going to let a portable antenna fly -.  

 

[BDPetersen]

Hmmm. I wonder if the word “can” is operative in the statement that it “can”use an external GPS antenna. As explained to me, the unit has an internal antenna, but the use of an external improves performance by bringing it online faster. My phone conversation with Garmin confirmed that notion. I had been resigned to using an external WAAS antenna prior to that.

[N201MKTurbo]

When I was installing my G5 HSI I fired it up without an antenna or external GPS. it came alive almost instantly in the hangar with the door closed. When I hooked up the GPS with its WAAS antenna I had to open the door and pull the plane half out to get a usable signal.

[Bryan]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

When I was installing my G5 HSI I fired it up without an antenna or external GPS. it came alive almost instantly in the hangar with the door closed. When I hooked up the GPS with its WAAS antenna I had to open the door and pull the plane half out to get a usable signal.

Do you have your G5 HSI tied to an autopilot?

Today, I don't have GPSS in my GTN750 equipped KFC 200 autopilot but I can turn the HSI needle to the next heading without issue.  I really want to upgrade to something more on the 6-pack side and I am hoping the G5 HSI + GAD29B is my answer.  I think the next, more expensive option is to go to an Aspen 1000 Pro.  Then the G500, Then the new TXi stuff.

[SkipSS]

I have a KAP 150 autopilot, GTN 650 and GTX 345. My AI is KI 256 and King HSI. It’s my understanding my autopilot can connect to a G5 replacement of my HSI, but that the G5 as AI won’t drive autopilot. Can someone confirm this?

My AI is acting up, and I’d prefer to replace it with G5 rather than overhaul 23 year old unit. 

Thanks

 

[BDPetersen]

In my Installation manual, revision 6, I don’t seem to find anything but reference to the external antenna as “ optional “. I’m not the best at digging out such details, but . . . Would love to be enlightened. As I say, I discussed this with Garmin tech guy. Thanks for any help.

[bradp]

3 hours ago, SkipSS said:

I have a KAP 150 autopilot, GTN 650 and GTX 345. My AI is KI 256 and King HSI. It’s my understanding my autopilot can connect to a G5 replacement of my HSI, but that the G5 as AI won’t drive autopilot. Can someone confirm this?

My AI is acting up, and I’d prefer to replace it with G5 rather than overhaul 23 year old unit. 

Thanks

 

The g5 won’t provide any attitude signals to your autopilot.  So the 256 has to stay.  You could replace just the HSI with the G5 but couldn’t do a dual G5 unless :

1) you don’t have a flight director version of the Ki-256 and could put the 256 in the turn coordinator position and it could drive your autopilot from there  

2) if you do have a flight director AI it needs to stay front and center   You could do G5 AI as a TC replacement / backup.  

Re the antenna- I installed this G5 AI myself and trust me the installation manual is clear that you need a WAAS source or antenna providing a GPS signal for the AI.  The only work around I can think of is if the internal antenna met the specifications in table 3-7.  I really didn’t want to drill a hole in my fuselage , so I was very conscientious about determining  whether the antenna was required 

You can see if it’s required if G5 is installed as a HSI.  I don’t know about that configuration because my install was done with an earlier revision of the STC installation manual. 

[N201MKTurbo]

6 hours ago, Bryan said:

Do you have your G5 HSI tied to an autopilot?

Today, I don't have GPSS in my GTN750 equipped KFC 200 autopilot but I can turn the HSI needle to the next heading without issue.  I really want to upgrade to something more on the 6-pack side and I am hoping the G5 HSI + GAD29B is my answer.  I think the next, more expensive option is to go to an Aspen 1000 Pro.  Then the G500, Then the new TXi stuff.

I just picked up my GAD29B yesterday. I will install it some time soon.

I currently have the autopilot hooked up to the Avidyne and it works Great. I still have the old DG installed to run the autopilot. I will remove it when I install the GAD29B.

[BDPetersen]

And you are correct. Consulting the most recent rev of the G5 installation manual AND reconsulting Garmin tech support confirms that the info I received from them a month ago was incorrect. Perhaps it is true for non-certified antenna requirements, but not certified, even though I was explicit in that was what my inquiry was for. Fortunately, I have a GA35 antenna intended for the installation. 

Thanks for the guidance and apologies for the confusion.

[N201MKTurbo]

There is a lot the G5 will do that is not covered in the STC. I wanted to use it as the altitude encoder for my transponder. I hooked it up and it worked, but the STC specifically says that you cannot use the RS232 output. I can't for the life of me figure out why they said that. I have the wire still hooked up but I'm not configured to use it.

[bradp]

One unfortunate thing I just learned about today is that the autopilot interfaced versions of the GAD-29B require a spliced AIRINC 429 out to two separate AIRINC 429 IN channels on a Garmin 430/530 GPS.  If you have anything else connected via AIRINC to your GNS box you won't have any additional channels left over.   Trek says over on beechtalk that they are working on a software workaround for the GNS boxes - but my excitement about installing it has suddenly lulled.

I guess I could disconnect the TIS from the transponder (that only works some places, but my home airport radar has it and it still works well) and wire up a GAD 29B as requested until a software fix comes and then reconfigure.  Or I could just do nothing and wait.  I don't want to take the plane out of service again so I think I might wait a bit...  

Yes - @turbo - the box can do a lot that is not advertised.  The software is not locked or downgraded either.  You're on your honor not to mess with it, I suppose.  

For all those folks deciding on whether to upgrade to legacy units or new - if you have the budget to spare look for something that has extra connectivity built in (i.e. additional channels).  My biggest disappointment so far with not going with a newer generation WAAS box is that I'm now out of RS-232 channels and I'm out of AIRINC channels.  No more upgrades for you says the soup man.  I believe the CNX-480s again triumph in this respect.  What a robust piece of equipment that thing is/was. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bradp said:

One unfortunate thing I just learned about today is that the autopilot interfaced versions of the GAD-29B require a spliced AIRINC 429 out to two separate AIRINC 429 IN channels on a Garmin 430/530 GPS.  If you have anything else connected via AIRINC to your GNS box you won't have any additional channels left over.   Trek says over on beechtalk that they are working on a software workaround for the GNS boxes - but my excitement about installing it has suddenly lulled.

I guess I could disconnect the TIS from the transponder (that only works some places, but my home airport radar has it and it still works well) and wire up a GAD 29B as requested until a software fix comes and then reconfigure.  Or I could just do nothing and wait.  I don't want to take the plane out of service again so I think I might wait a bit...  

Yes - @turbo - the box can do a lot that is not advertised.  The software is not locked or downgraded either.  You're on your honor not to mess with it, I suppose.  

For all those folks deciding on whether to upgrade to legacy units or new - if you have the budget to spare look for something that has extra connectivity built in (i.e. additional channels).  My biggest disappointment so far with not going with a newer generation WAAS box is that I'm now out of RS-232 channels and I'm out of AIRINC channels.  No more upgrades for you says the soup man.  I believe the CNX-480s again triumph in this respect.  What a robust piece of equipment that thing is/was. 

 

The 80/480 is indeed a great piece of equipment.  

Clarence

[ArtVandelay]

All mine were taken but they think since 2 of the channels are out only, they can chain both together, they were going to check with Garmin.

[Browncbr1]

Yes, you can “chain” an rs-232 signal wire so two devices receive the data from one output wire.  

[bradp]

19 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Yes, you can “chain” an rs-232 signal wire so two devices receive the data from one output wire.  

But goes without saying that both the inputs need to be receiving the same data format as the output is providing. 

[HRM]

50 minutes ago, Browncbr1 said:

Yes, you can “chain” an rs-232 signal wire so two devices receive the data from one output wire.  

Indeed you can. Takes me back to NMSU, ECE Department, circa 1984. The administrator for the college VAX asked if I would show him how to install Eunice and I agreed. Dr. Steelman (RIP) was going to a conference and he said we could use his office terminal. Little did the admin, a total dork, know that my accomplices were in the comm closet patched onto the RS232 cable with a terminal. I was asked to leave the office while he logged in as superuser and I graciously complied knowing that we were recording the passwords. We set up so many backdoors, with admin privilege, that two years later when I defended my diss we still had su privileges. Good times.

[N201MKTurbo]

10 hours ago, HRM said:

Indeed you can. Takes me back to NMSU, ECE Department, circa 1984. The administrator for the college VAX asked if I would show him how to install Eunice and I agreed. Dr. Steelman (RIP) was going to a conference and he said we could use his office terminal. Little did the admin, a total dork, know that my accomplices were in the comm closet patched onto the RS232 cable with a terminal. I was asked to leave the office while he logged in as superuser and I graciously complied knowing that we were recording the passwords. We set up so many backdoors, with admin privilege, that two years later when I defended my diss we still had su privileges. Good times.

I did it a little more old school. When I was in high school I was in the Honeywell Explorer Post (where they built the Honeywell 6000 computer) We met in the factory after hours and had amazing access to some of the biggest computers around. We would just tell the sponsor we needed to go bathroom and on the way we would root around in everybody's cubes and find the post it notes with their usernames and passwords.

At school I found a phone modem and convinced the computer lab teacher to let me hook it up to one of the KSR33s. He let me wheel it into the teachers lounge (smoking and drinking room) and use the phone. He thought it was the coolest thing he ever saw. Complete access to a multi-million dollar prototype mainframe. This was in 1972.

[DustinNwind]

Hi All,

 

My shop and I installed a G5 with a GMU 11 a couple of weeks ago and everything has worked great till today. I started getting an X over the ground speed and then it would disappear. Sometimes it could come back and read erroneous speeds (ground speeds). Any idea what this is and how to fix it? 
 

Thanks!

 

D

[EricJ]

39 minutes ago, DustinNwind said:

My shop and I installed a G5 with a GMU 11 a couple of weeks ago and everything has worked great till today. I started getting an X over the ground speed and then it would disappear. Sometimes it could come back and read erroneous speeds (ground speeds). Any idea what this is and how to fix it? 

There are all kinds of wack faults and stuff that mine will do from time to time.   So far I just look them up in the manual and usually they're some sort of intermittent thing due to planetary alignment or a change in the value of Garmin stock or something.   Every one I've had has been temporary and cleared itself.    Not sure about the one you're seeing, but it seems like similar stuff just happens once in a while.

 

[bradp]

Enable the data log.  

Check your GPS source (antenna internal, external, connected navigator). 

Sebd log to garmin engineering if it persists and troubleshooting no fruitful. 

[Ragsf15e]

On 11/8/2017 at 3:01 PM, N201MKTurbo said:

There is a lot the G5 will do that is not covered in the STC. I wanted to use it as the altitude encoder for my transponder. I hooked it up and it worked, but the STC specifically says that you cannot use the RS232 output. I can't for the life of me figure out why they said that. I have the wire still hooked up but I'm not configured to use it.

So you probably know this, but the g5 can be a legal encoder now.  My shop was installing mine and asked if I wanted them to remove my old encoder... of course I said you can’t!  But they triple checked, it’s added to the stc now.

[N201MKTurbo]

11 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

So you probably know this, but the g5 can be a legal encoder now.  My shop was installing mine and asked if I wanted them to remove my old encoder... of course I said you can’t!  But they triple checked, it’s added to the stc now.

Thanks for the heads up!

[DaveTrish]

Be careful.  The G5 install manual has been updated many times since the Rev. 9 quoted above.  Always consult the latest manual for the most up-to-date information.  Here is what the latest revision (24) says about the internal GPS and glare shield antenna: 

3.4.1 GPS Antenna

A GPS signal is required. The G5 can use the Glare Shield Mounted GPS Antenna or GPS data from one
of the GPS navigators listed in Section 5 or a GPS-enabled GTX 3x5 transponder. The G5 unit is capable
of utilizing both a GPS Navigator/GTX 3x5 and a Glare Shield Mounted GPS Antenna for GPS position
simultaneously.

In a dual G5 installation only, the G5 Attitude requires the GPS position input. The GPS information is
communicated to the G5 DG/HSI over the CAN bus.

If a GPS Navigator or a GTX 3x5 is used for a GPS signal without a Glare Shield Mounted GPS Antenna,
disable the internal GPS receiver of the G5. If the G5 is connected to the Glare Shield Mounted GPS
Antenna, enable the internal GPS receiver. See Section 5 for configuration settings.

This STC approves the installation and interface of the BNC Glare Shield Mounted GPS Antenna,
P/N 011-04036-10. The 011-04036-00 TNC Glare Shield Mounted GPS Antenna is approved as
well, but requires a TNC/BNC adapter to connect this antenna to the G5, adapter P/N 330-01754-00.

 

[OR75]

On 1/25/2020 at 8:23 PM, Ragsf15e said:

So you probably know this, but the g5 can be a legal encoder now.  My shop was installing mine and asked if I wanted them to remove my old encoder... of course I said you can’t!  But they triple checked, it’s added to the stc now.

Can you point to where in the STC or in the install manual it says the G5 can be an encoder ? Thanks !