World Record or just another average flight in a Mooney?

[ArtVandelay]

How many NMPG does a 350 HP Mooney get? Diesels are far more efficient than gas engines.  The question is how to make them last long enough.  That hasn't been figured out 

They could make gas engines far more efficient if they upped the compression and added electronic ignition...of course the FAA certification would be the problem

[1964-M20E]

The first thing that makes diesel engines seem more efficient is the BTU content in diesel is greater than gasoline just like it is less for alcohol which is why people claim less MPG when running high alcohol content fuels in the automobiles.

 

Secondly I generally average 16NM per gallon in my F model (145kts /9gph) better than if I drive my truck and get there twice as fast or better. 

third the 182 he was flying leaves the gear hanging out in the wind a 182RG would do better but a Mooney would still out perform the 182 with the same engine at least in speed and efficiency.

Finally, I wouldn't mind having a 200hp turbocharged FADEC diesel hanging on the front of my Mooney for a total cost of a factory overhauled IO360.  I know dreaming.

 

[Brandontwalker]

I have an announcement. I broke this record earlier this week. I will be waiting for my medal and press release dates. My J will cruise 100 degrees ROP and achieve 19.86 MPG (with an 8 kt headwind).

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[N201MKTurbo]

If I go up high and fly LOP I can get 150 KTS at 8 GPH. I can make that Cessna look like a gas hog!

[steingar]

Nice thing about diesel is it can be made by microbes, so it can (rather easily) be a renewable fuel. 

[aviatoreb]

10 hours ago, PMcClure said:

I can see we need to review Significant Figures! Here is a primer. 

https://www.khanacademy.org/math/pre-algebra/decimals-pre-alg/sig-figs-pre-alg/v/significant-figures

All my figures are the best figures.  I have the BEST figures.  My figures are really big.  Believe me, I have really big FIGURES and they are all significant.

[Danb]

Erik, don't let the Maraurder know about large items

[aviatoreb]

Just now, Danb said:

Erik, don't let the Maraurder know about large items

Oh - you are right.  I apologize to everyone for the visual onslaught I unwittingly opened us all up to.  EVERYBODY ATTENTION - put on your Maraurder-sweetie anti-viewing protection devices.

[N201MKTurbo]

33 minutes ago, steingar said:

Nice thing about diesel is it can be made by microbes, so it can (rather easily) be a renewable fuel. 

Sure, if you want to pay $20/gal for it. Currently the only way to make economical ethyl ester (bio diesel) is to use a free waste stream.

[N601RX]

Speaking of efficiency and reliability I recently retired my 2001 Jetta diesel with 460,000 miles.  It never had any engine work other than water pump and timing belts. Motor still runs fine, the rest of the car is showing its mileage. 

It's replacement is a vw 2013 Passat with a diesel. I purchased it sight unseen from  2016 Mooney ovation owner in Indy and drove it back to Alabama. I topped it off and reset the odometer and mpg before leaving Indy. When. I arrived home 600 miles later it still had 3/8 tank and averaged 52.5 mpg over the entire trip.  Try that with a larger mid sized gas burner. 

[cnoe]

43 minutes ago, aviatoreb said:

All my figures are the best figures.  I have the BEST figures.  My figures are really big.  Believe me, I have really big FIGURES and they are all significant.

Welcome to MooneySpace Mr. Trump!

[MB65E]

6 minutes ago, N601RX said:

Speaking of efficiency and reliability I recently retired my 2001 Jetta diesel with 460,000 miles.  It never had any engine work other than water pump and timing belts. Motor still runs fine, the rest of the car is showing its mileage. 

It's replacement is a vw 2013 Passat with a diesel. I purchased it sight unseen from  2016 Mooney ovation owner in Indy and drove it back to Alabama. I topped it off and reset the odometer and mpg before leaving Indy. When. I arrived home 600 miles later it still had 3/8 tank and averaged 52.5 mpg over the entire trip.  Try that with a larger mid sized gas burner. 

Impressive 460k!

My mom and dad love their '13 Passat TDI, they live in IL, an emission state,  and are waiting to see what VW does with the buy back etc. Until then they really love it. Those earlier TDIs were great, I've been told they can run on Jet A. Post 2002 they changed the pumps and it needs cleaner gas. (So I'm told)

I'll try to be efficient on the way to OSH and see what the old E does.  Might actually save te fuel receipts. However, All bets are off when the weather kicks in. 

-Matt

[N601RX]

In 2002 or 2003 I forget which they replaced the traditional mechanical pump and injectors with a high pressure common rail configuration. Prior to this the engines were perfectly happy with preheated used French fry grease. Crank it on regular diesel and wait a few minutes for it to warm the veggie oil up to 180 deg and then flip the switch.  Before shutting down flip it back to diesel and let it run for a minute of so. A coworker ran both his truck and car like this for several years.  A couple of local dinners were amused by it and gave him the uses oil for free   He had a filteration system at home to process it   

We have 2 of the Passats and they will both easily do 50+ on long trips.  They will approach 60mpg if you set them on 55. 

[steingar]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Sure, if you want to pay $20/gal for it. Currently the only way to make economical ethyl ester (bio diesel) is to use a free waste stream.

It can be done in a much more parsimonious fashion.  Microbes are the most efficient way of making hydrocarbons other than pumpkin them out of the ground.  And we'll not be able to do that forever.

[N201MKTurbo]

Just now, steingar said:

It can be done in a much more parsimonious fashion.  Microbes are the most efficient way of making hydrocarbons other than pumpkin them out of the ground.  And we'll not be able to do that forever.

So, why isn't the world overflowing with cheap bio diesel? If we converted all the arable land in the US with fields growing plants that could be converted to fuel we would not be able to replace what we are currently pumping.  And besides I think we are better off growing food because I like to eat! 
 

The most successful bio reactors were growing algae and all of them, so far, failed to produce any economical fuel.

When we run out of petroleum, which we will someday, put your Mooney on a pole as a monument to the good old days and buy a horse. 

[Hank]

1 hour ago, N601RX said:

They will approach 60mpg if you set them on 55. 

I only go that slow through town and along the taxiway . . . I bought the Mooney because I have had the "need for speed" since well before the movie came out, and there are no speeding tickets in the air [my C won't go fast enough for that!].

[Danb]

4 hours ago, N601RX said:

Speaking of efficiency and reliability I recently retired my 2001 Jetta diesel with 460,000 miles.  It never had any engine work other than water pump and timing belts. Motor still runs fine, the rest of the car is showing its mileage. 

It's replacement is a vw 2013 Passat with a diesel. I purchased it sight unseen from  2016 Mooney ovation owner in Indy and drove it back to Alabama. I topped it off and reset the odometer and mpg before leaving Indy. When. I arrived home 600 miles later it still had 3/8 tank and averaged 52.5 mpg over the entire trip.  Try that with a larger mid sized gas burner. 

1RX, the only thing harder on gas than my Bravo is my a Escalade, I get a whopping 8-9 mpg around town, but jump up to 14 mpg on the hwy.

[bonal]

55 mile speed limit was not designed to save fuel it was to make us all go insane

[Marauder]

55 mile speed limit was not designed to save fuel it was to make us all go insane

I know what you mean, (modified from the movie "6th Sense");

"What's your secret Marauder?"

"I see fat people."

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[PMcClure]

2 hours ago, Danb said:

1RX, the only thing harder on gas than my Bravo is my a Escalade, I get a whopping 8-9 mpg around town, but jump up to 14 mpg on the hwy.

Try a boat, weighed down with 2400 lbs of ballast. 53 gallons disappears is a flash!

 

[steingar]

20 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

So, why isn't the world overflowing with cheap bio diesel? If we converted all the arable land in the US with fields growing plants that could be converted to fuel we would not be able to replace what we are currently pumping.  And besides I think we are better off growing food because I like to eat! 
 

The most successful bio reactors were growing algae and all of them, so far, failed to produce any economical fuel.

Our infrastructure is designed around pumping oil out of the ground and shipping it.  It isn't designed around ground microbes and getting oil of out of them.  When it is, costs will still be higher for biofuels, no doubt, but less than they are now.  Nothing is cheaper than oil that just comes out of the ground.  

That, and we're still on first generation biofuels, this science is brand spanking new.

[N201MKTurbo]

28 minutes ago, steingar said:

Our infrastructure is designed around pumping oil out of the ground and shipping it.  It isn't designed around ground microbes and getting oil of out of them.  When it is, costs will still be higher for biofuels, no doubt, but less than they are now.  Nothing is cheaper than oil that just comes out of the ground.  

That, and we're still on first generation biofuels, this science is brand spanking new.

This guy is the most knowledgeable guy out there on bio fuels. I have been reading his columns for 15 years. Give this a read:

http://www.peakprosperity.com/page/transcript-robert-rapier-scientific-challenges-replacing-oil-renewables

 

[ArtVandelay]

There is more to oil than just some gasoline or diesel, we found out synthetic oil wasn't good for our engines, and there is other by products like plastics, nylon, solvents...to name a few.

[kris_adams]

On July 19, 2016 at 8:14 AM, 1964-M20E said:

Finally, I wouldn't mind having a 200hp turbocharged FADEC diesel hanging on the front of my Mooney for a total cost of a factory overhauled IO360.  I know dreaming.

I'm with you.  I'd sign up for this tomorrow!

[steingar]

On July 20, 2016 at 9:24 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

This guy is the most knowledgeable guy out there on bio fuels. I have been reading his columns for 15 years. Give this a read:

http://www.peakprosperity.com/page/transcript-robert-rapier-scientific-challenges-replacing-oil-renewables

 

We're taking apples and oranges.  Think about it this way.  There are microbes that can eat oil spills.  In biochemistry, makings eating backwards.  That is, if microbes can eat oil, they can synthesize it.  Just a matter of genetic engineering.

The current crop of microbial biofuels are mostly from wild-type algae that just happen to be oil rich.  I sat in on a doctoral thesis where the young lady was trying to boost the amount of butanol made by a bacterium.  With one genetic modification she boosted the butane output of that bug by an order of magnitude.

Couple good oil producing microbes to passive heat from power plants and you've got an efficient production system.  It will never be as cheap as oil, nothing non-nuclear will.  But it is the only renewable that will come close and is anywhere near scalable.