77 J

[eman1200]

The good, bad, ugly, specific things to look for.......I know, I know, another vague post but any info is appreciated and I'm a noob so I'm allowed to be vague. 

 

[Bob - S50]

Good:  It's a J.

Bad: Levers instead of push/pull verniers.  Bad fuel tank selector valve position.

[TWinter]

23 minutes ago, Bob - S50 said:

Good:  It's a J.

Bad: Levers instead of push/pull verniers.  Bad fuel tank selector valve position.

 

Good: It's a J

Good: It's levers instead of push/pull vernier. Fuel tank selector valve position.

 

-Tom

[Hank]

Look for the typical Mooney stuff--corrosion, regular use, leaky tanks. Check the manufactured date molded into the pucks. SMOH/SPOH, TT, etc. What's in the radio stack? Does it have an engine monitor with fuel flow? It's pretty much a requirement to fly LOP, and you'll want those panel photos with the nmpg displayed to flaunt at us carbed folks.

The throttle quadrant is something that I really like. To me, it's much nicer than just having the knobs stick straight out of the panel. But they don't twist for fine tuning. It's a personal thing, they really rub some people wrong--look at the huge job Scott did to swap his quadrant for the push-pull knobs. 

A J will still be grass-field capable, unless you have the oft discussed but never seen insurance policy that prohibits them. If you plan to go often, the lower gear doors are easily removable, making your clearance the same as the whole pre-J crowd and very grass-field-accepting.

But dear God! Get a better picture for your posts in the future!

P.S.--almost forgot, the early Js are lighter than the later ones, so you should have decent useful load. It won't be eligible for the gross weight increase, though; that was added to offset the weight gain and get the later ones up near where the early ones already were. Also had something to do with the landing gear, maybe Mooney started using K landing gear to simplify production.

PPS--sorry, I live here and read a lot of threads . . . I've never even sat in a J of any vintage. I'm trying to decide if my C is really my forever plane; it's been a great nine years so far!

Edited May 30, 2016 by Hank

[ArtVandelay]

77 Vge is 120 vs 150 for 78 onwards

[eman1200]

33 minutes ago, Hank said:

Look for the typical Mooney stuff--corrosion, regular use, leaky tanks. Check the manufactured date molded into the pucks. SMOH/SPOH, TT, etc. What's in the radio stack? Does it have an engine monitor with fuel flow? It's pretty much a requirement to fly LOP, and you'll want those panel photos with the nmpg displayed to flaunt at us carbed folks.

The throttle quadrant is something that I really like. To me, it's much nicer than just having the knobs stick straight out of the panel. But they don't twist for fine tuning. It's a personal thing, they really rub some people wrong--look at the huge job Scott did to swap his quadrant for the push-pull knobs. 

A J will still be grass-field capable, unless you have the oft discussed but never seen insurance policy that prohibits them. If you plan to go often, the lower gear doors are easily removable, making your clearance the same as the whole pre-J crowd and very grass-field-accepting.

But dear God! Get a better picture for your posts in the future!

P.S.--almost forgot, the early Js are lighter than the later ones, so you should have decent useful load. It won't be eligible for the gross weight increase, though; that was added to offset the weight gain and get the later ones up near where the early ones already were. Also had something to do with the landing gear, maybe Mooney started using K landing gear to simplify production.

PPS--sorry, I live here and read a lot of threads . . . I've never even sat in a J of any vintage. I'm trying to decide if my C is really my forever plane; it's been a great nine years so far!

I actually don't have a strong preference between the quadrant or push/pull.  I do like the fine tuning but it's not a make or break thing for me.  Grass as well, it's not high on my list.  The airframe has high TT (6k+) but decent TSMOH (700+).  As I learn more I'll post.

[eman1200]

5 minutes ago, teejayevans said:

77 Vge is 120 vs 150 for 78 onwards

ouch, that I didn't realize, thanks for pointing that out.

[KSMooniac]

The gear actuator doesn't have the expensive no back clutch spring. My useful load is over 1000 lbs.

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[mike_elliott]

5 minutes ago, KSMooniac said:

The gear actuator doesn't have the expensive no back clutch spring. My useful load is over 1000 lbs.

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Well, maybe...It depends on the actuator that's actually in the plane. So does Vge. A lot of them have had a replacement. When I owned my 70 F, it had an aeromech actuator.

[Hank]

Oh, yeah--no split reclining rear seats. But never fear, the modification instructions are posted here (several years ago). I was very interested, until I realized my C already has split reclining seats. Search is your friend.

[BillC]

 

1 hour ago, teejayevans said:

77 Vge is 120 vs 150 for 78 onwards

Vge?

[MB65E]

Gear extension speed 

[carusoam]

10) The early Js are the most modern Fs!

9) If you like low serial numbers... Look for 24-0001.

8) classic squared off wing tips...

7) Lopresti is your favorite aerodynamicist.

6) ........

 

-a-

[BillC]

 

Gear extension speed

 

Yeah, I assumed thats what you all meant but unless the 77 M20J has a published Vge in the flight manual that I don't know about, I've never heard of it.  As far as I know there is only Vlo (may be a different number for extend or retract) and Vle.

 

[Marauder]

The '77s initially had lower gear speeds, and never exceed and max structural cruising speeds, too, but they were soon thereafter increased by service bulletin to what they are for '78 models and immediately beyond.

Speaking of service bulletins, check them out during this period of time.  There are a bunch of them that apply to '77s but not '78s.  Most have probably long since been complied with, though.

Jim

http://www.mooney201.de/files/M20-198.pdf

http://www.mooney201.de/files/M20-209.pdf

 

Do you know if the late model Fs can be retrofitted with the inner gear doors. I got serious gear envy in a buddy's J watching him drop the gear in the 130s.

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[bradp]

The optimal throttle configuration in my book would be quadrant style throttle lever and vernier push pull for prop and mixture. 

Best part?  Strategic positioning of the eyeball vent on the pilots side.  I have no idea if that started with the J or not.  

[NotarPilot]

Eman,

Are you feeling a little verclempt today?

[Marauder]

8 minutes ago, Marauder said: Do you know if the late model Fs can be retrofitted with the inner gear doors. I got serious gear envy in a buddy's J watching him drop the gear in the 130s.

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I've seen "vintage" Mooneys retrofitted with the J and K's inner gear doors, Chris, but unfortunately I'm afraid that they are still stuck with their original gear speeds. 

Jim

I wonder if it is due to the gear motor ratios. The 77 J has the same gear motor as my 75 F but the crank is spun a lot more times to get the gear down manually

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[eman1200]

Eman,

Are you feeling a little verclempt today?

I'm a renter so yeah, I'm verklempt every time I wanna fly.

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[Joe Larussa]

8 hours ago, teejayevans said:

77 Vge is 120 vs 150 for 78 onwards

My VLE is 155 IAS and love the throttle quadrant! Makes me feel like a 747 pilot when I push the levers forward! Fuel selector does kind of suck. I have a pvc pipe gizmo that makes it easier to reach. My 201 has no step to help get in but I think I get a whooping 1 knot more airspeed!

[eman1200]

6 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Oh, yeah. Another difference. '77 Js originally came equipped with C212 series Macs as opposed to the C214s that were installed from '78 onwards.  Arguably the C214 is more efficient but you can legally install a C214 on a '77 but you can't legally install a C212 on a '78 or later, so I'd call this one a wash if you are a CB as C212s are available on the cheap. 

hhmm, maybe I should know what you're talking about but I don't.

[helitim]

My VLE is also 155.  77 model J

[jetdriven]

Same here.  Vle is 155 MOH IAS.

. The c212 prop is squared off while the 78 and later got the C214 which is rounded. Most have been updated. It's NBD anyways as its a very small performance increase. 

Edited May 30, 2016 by jetdriven

[bradp]

19 hours ago, jetdriven said:

Same here.  Vle is 155 MOH IAS.

. The c212 prop is squared off while the 78 and later got the C214 which is rounded. Most have been updated. It's NBD anyways as its a very small performance increase. 

As I understand the square tip has quite vibration through low RPM that the rounded tip doesn't.