IFR question

[Joe Larussa]

So you arrive at your non-towered airport and it looks like you can depart VFR but overcast is right around the corner. You fire up and it rolls in. Overcast 700 feet. You can clearly see its VFR ten miles away and you want to go to a Vor 20 miles away to practice holds and you are IFR current. I guess you shut down and call the briefer and get a clearance. VFR on top?

IFR with a clearance to the VOR to do air work? Suggestions?

[Hank]

Why shut down? Grab the cell, shove it under your headset and call the national Clearance Delivery number. Taxi out and runup while you wait. Go when they say you can.

[Joe Larussa]

So what kind of clearance would you ask for?

[Hank]

Based on my experience, I'd asked for IFR departure from East Bum F*** (KBFE) to the Nowhere VOR (NWH) then on to somewhere I could land (now that's KBFE, a great luxury). I'm getting spoiled now at an airport with several approaches and a nearby VOR that's on the list to go away at some point; before, I needed to shoot an approach into the neighboring Class D and come back Special VFR, conditions permitting. Then I moved to where I am now.

I've not made a departure in IMC down here yet, but I have come home and broken out on approach. I have taken off on IFR flight plans, but with high enough ceilings I could climb and contact ATL Approach to open my flight plan. In your scenario, you'll need a Departure Clearance with a void time, and they'll give you initial course and a frequency to check in with.

[smwash02]

700' is in class E/G airspace, so you can depart VFR without issue.

Once you get to the VFR area, start your climb, call the controlling agency and tell them where you are and that you want to do practice procedures.

If you want to file IFR, I'd probably file for an airport on the way to the VOR and put the VOR in the route and add remarks about my intentions.

[Deb]

Oddly enough, it is apparently legal to depart in IMC in uncontrolled airspace without an IFR clearance as long as you are in VMC when you enter controlled airspace. The cloud clearances in class G airspace refer to VFR flight; if you and the airplane meet the requirements for IFR flight, it's legal. So in theory, one could takeoff in IMC without a clearance, and when it's VFR enter controlled airspace. I'm neither advocating this or saying it's safe; just that it's permitted by the regulations. Here's a lengthy discussion on Beechtalk:

http://www.beechtalk.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=42&t=89781

As Hank and snwash02 have posted, filing to the VOR or a point enroute would also work; you could then tell ATC you wanted to practice holds either IFR, or cancel and practice in VMC on your own. It's usually faster to have an IFR flight plan on file when you call the national clearance delivery number (888-766-8267). When we called them, it took a while to get a clearance when they couldn't find our flight plan.

[RLCarter]

After departing VFR I contact ATC and ask for "Local IFR", tell ATC what approachs and/or holds I want, get the clearance and go. At a towered field I do the same but file local IFR with the tower. 

 

[Danb]

David interesting rap on beech talk, and I agree with your statement per the regs. But I'd most likely file like Hank said basically I'd call for a clearance from kiii to kiii along with Ifr practice etc., my logic is merely other than safety I assume it's Ifr when I get back so you can get back on the ground assuming it's stays Ifr. I've called 1800-992-7433 and then national clearance  for this.throw some approach procedures in if you want.

[Jeff_S]

Yes, I was in the camp to depart VFR and stay low, which is entirely legal. But you had better be sure your clouds will go away when you think they will. Otherwise, you could call in for a pop-up.

[dlthig]

I would file and fly IFR for the whole trip. Tell the briefer exactly what you plan on doing and they will help you file. 700' ain't much and you'd better know what is down there, power lines, cell phone towers are major hazzards. Are you carring charts with the latest updates for VFR flight? Is it summer in the south? Cropdusters get nose bleeds above 500'. Do Medevac flights frequent the area? For me, the risk - reward just isn't there. You've got an instrument rating for a reason, enjoy what you've worked for and learn in the process. Just my 2 cents.

[midlifeflyer]

I agree with those who say, file and pick up your clearance on the ground.

That "overcast right around the corner" likely means controllers are busy. There tends to be more IFR traffic and greater separation requirements. That means a "local IFR" (a non FAA term for a type of pop-up clearance use in some parts of the country) may be less likely to get* and even a VFR departure to pick up a filed clearance can result in a "hold for release; maintain VFR." You fly circles at low altitude and ultimately copy your clearance while trying to avoid becoming a lost-of-control or CFIT statistic. 

(I did that once. Rather than call for a filed clearance on the ground, I decided to take advantage of the nice 1200' ceiling at the airport and try to pick it up in the air. I think I circled the traffic pattern a dozen times while another airplane calmly sat just off the approach end of the runway waiting for his. Never again!)

So file and pick up your clearance on the ground (I assume we all know how to do that)

What to file? People have used various shortcuts, but this works everywhere:

In Joe's example and assuming one is talking about doing some holds and then returning to the home base. File the flight plan with the destination and departure airport the same. File the VOR as the intermediate waypoint. Place "IFR practice flight" in the remarks. That's it. get your clearance take off and ATC will be happy to accommodate.

(*The use of "local IFR" varies a lot geographically. In some parts of the country it is used extensively; in others not at all.)

 

[Bob - S50]

Personally, if I'm going out to get some IFR practice I'll get a full IFR brief on Lockheed Martin regardless of the anticipated weather, I'll file an IFR flightplan, and make sure I am familiar with the obstacle departure procedure and approaches I want to practice.  If I'm just going out to get some IFR practice in the local area I'll file from my home drone, back to my home drone and put "practice approaches in the local area" in the remarks section.  I'll then pick up my clearance just like I would if I was going someplace.  That way I practice all phases of IFR, not just the approaches.

If I'm going someplace, even if I'm anticipating severe clear, I'll still get a full IFR brief on Lockheed Martin.  Sometimes I file an IFR clearance anyway, even if I plan on flying VFR.  Once I'm airborne I'll contact ATC to let them know I want flight following.  If I filed IFR I'll let them know I have an IFR plan on file but plan to fly VFR with flight following.

[midlifeflyer]

13 hours ago, Hank said:

Why shut down? Grab the cell, shove it under your headset and call the national Clearance Delivery number. Taxi out and runup while you wait. Go when they say you can.

I'm curious, Hank. And this could end up being some serious thread creep:

My headset has an audio/cellphone interface that crapped out. I've been looking into one of those after-market adapters. I don't care about listening to music; just calling for clearances. Sounds like you've had some success doing this. The cockpit with the engine running seems pretty noisy. Are you doing this before start or after. And if after, how?

[M20F]

2 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

I'm curious, Hank. And this could end up being some serious thread creep:

My headset has an audio/cellphone interface that crapped out. I've been looking into one of those after-market adapters. I don't care about listening to music; just calling for clearances. Sounds like you've had some success doing this. The cockpit with the engine running seems pretty noisy. Are you doing this before start or after. And if after, how?

I have a Bose A20 with the bluetooth and the quality on the phone is great.  When I was based at 06C I used to call Chicago approach directly and they would clear you at the threshold to go.  I can personally neither confirm nor deny but have "heard" you can even call a taxi while coming into land at places with no issues.

[midlifeflyer]

16 minutes ago, M20F said:

I have a Bose A20 with the bluetooth and the quality on the phone is great.  When I was based at 06C I used to call Chicago approach directly and they would clear you at the threshold to go.  I can personally neither confirm nor deny but have "heard" you can even call a taxi while coming into land at places with no issues.

Yeah, I know. Before the adapter in my Telex crapped out it worked great. Clear as a bell. Used it often on the ground. Once in the air when visiting some friends as a remote dirt strip. It was not a Mooney and the landing gear light didn't come on. I was pretty sure the gear was down but not sure enough to risk a gear up at a remote strip where I might have to pay for a 3 hour tow to the nearest airport with repair faculties.

But with it not working, I have been thinking of a new headset. Hank's comment got me wondering whether I can get away without it.

 

[Hank]

Try it and see. Some noise will leak in, but the gel seal will accommodate a thin phone pretty well. This c ability is the only thing I miss since changing to Halo headsets. 

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, Hank said:

Try it and see. Some noise will leak in, but the gel seal will accommodate a thin phone pretty well. This c ability is the only thing I miss since changing to Halo headsets. 

I've heard of folks using earbuds-with-mike for the phone and just shoving it all into an earcup. 

[flight2000]

I've been debating getting the Pilot USA BLULink adaptor for use in these type situations.  Anybody have any experience with them? 

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/pspages/blulink.php?clickkey=7927

Cheers,

Brian

[Ratherbflying]

The BLULink is awesome. I use it with a Bose X headset, it's great to call for a clearance or to let somebody know you've arrived. Also good for listening to music in the air. 

I have LEMO plugs, so I picked my unit up used on eBay for a reasonable price.

[Marauder]

Just a vote for the Bluetooth intercoms if you find yourself upgrading. I thought it was a novelty, but found it to be a really nice feature. I have the PS Engineering 8000 BT. I think you can connect up to 8 devices to it.

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[flyboy0681]

1 hour ago, Marauder said:

Just a vote for the Bluetooth intercoms if you find yourself upgrading. I thought it was a novelty, but found it to be a really nice feature. I have the PS Engineering 8000 BT. I think you can connect up to 8 devices to it.

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I too love the 8000BT and have a question for you if you may know the answer. My wife plugs her Zulu2 into the jacks in the back seat so that her music isn't interrupted during radio transmissions, which she finds really bothersome. The problem is when the radio picks up a transmission it cuts out the intercom to the point where she can't talk to me, although she can hear me. This is very annoying in a terminal area where there is constant chatter and she can't get a word in edgewise (which may actually be a good thing  ).  Are you aware of any settings on the unit which would allow her to talk freely when the radio is picking up transmissions? 

[Marauder]

1 hour ago, Marauder said: Just a vote for the Bluetooth intercoms if you find yourself upgrading. I thought it was a novelty, but found it to be a really nice feature. I have the PS Engineering 8000 BT. I think you can connect up to 8 devices to it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I too love the 8000BT and have a question for you if you may know the answer. My wife plugs her Zulu2 into the jacks in the back seat so that her music isn't interrupted during radio transmissions, which she finds really bothersome. The problem is when the radio picks up a transmission it cuts out the intercom to the point where she can't talk to me, although she can hear me. This is very annoying in a terminal area where there is constant chatter and she can't get a word in edgewise (which may actually be a good thing  ).  Are you aware of any settings on the unit which would allow her to talk freely when the radio is picking up transmissions? 

It sounds like (pun intended) you have alternate intercom mode selected. In this mode, she can hear you but can't talk to you.

Hold the intercom button (second row key function) until it says "standard intercom function".

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[Marauder]

This might help:

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[flyboy0681]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said:

It sounds like (pun intended) you have alternate intercom mode selected. In this mode, she can hear you but can't talk to you.

Hold the intercom button (second row key function) until it says "standard intercom function".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've tried that, but when selected, and as the description states, "passengers will be able to converse with crew , UNLESS the radio becomes active", which is what I experienced.

Again, what I want is for her to be able to talk to me even when the radio is alive with chatter. I don't think that's possible with the unit.

[Marauder]

3 minutes ago, Marauder said: It sounds like (pun intended) you have alternate intercom mode selected. In this mode, she can hear you but can't talk to you.

Hold the intercom button (second row key function) until it says "standard intercom function".

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I've tried that, but when selected, and as the description states, "passengers will be able to converse with crew , UNLESS the radio becomes active", which is what I experienced.

Again, what I want is for her to be able to talk to me even when the radio is alive with chatter. I don't think that's possible with the unit.

I think you are right Not with her plugged into the back seat jacks.

When I fly, I will leave myself in isolate mode with the wife able to listen to whatever she wants and then switch to crew when it is less busy.

I think the way it is set up is by design to minimize distraction. Mark the owner of PS Engineering frequents this site. You may want to ask him.

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