Mooney down Los Angeles

[peevee]

crazy

Edited February 23, 2016 by peevee

[Marauder]

http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/Small-Plane-Crashes-Onto-San-Fernando-Valley-Street-369710341.html

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[aaronk25]

49 minutes ago, Hank said: I thought the fuel spills coincided with when the wings each hit things and broke. Doesn't matter if bladders were in them or. It, tear the wing off, fuel will gush out.

I have wondered if the bladders might slow down fuel escape enough to prevent or slow down onset of fire.  Would be interesting to know if there has been a study on this...  It is tragic how often it is he fire that gets people, not the crash landing.  Glad to see nothing ignited, there was plenty of opportunity.

All the bladders would do is add rubber to the fire.....

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[cliffy]

We're wrecking them faster than they can build them. 

[Hank]

Watch the video on one of the news sites, it shows the touchdown and almost simultaneous impact with opposite direction car that tears the wing off. Huge gush of fuel onto the road, making the larger puddle. This pulled the plane into an arc to the right. The left wing hit several parked cars. Then the pilot got out and walked around checking on things, headed back toward the moving car that he had hit. Pilot was uninjured. Looks like the arc bent the left main gear, too.

I'd love to hear from the pilot and see what belts he had in the plane!

[BigAirHarper]

So so glad to see pilot uninjured and no one on the ground as well. Metal can be replaced. 

On a diff note, since when did Mooney make a STOL plane? He stopped that baby in record time with no floating. Bravo sir.

[47U]

9 minutes ago, BigAirHarper said:

So so glad to see pilot uninjured and no one on the ground as well. Metal can be replaced. 

On a diff note, since when did Mooney make a STOL plane? He stopped that baby in record time with no floating. Bravo sir.

He used his AOA on landing.  Angle On Automobile.

[chrisk]

Thinking about this a bit, I was really surprised to see the wing ripped off.  I thought the spar was pretty stout and I would have expected some of it to remain.  Maybe someone with more knowledge of the internal construction can explain why it looked to be cleanly ripped off.

[mooniac15u]

20 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Cool if there's no fire! If there is a fire, each wing will have 3 to 4 bombs awaiting the flame front to detonate!

Contrary to what Hollywood likes to show us, liquid gasoline in tanks is not likely to explode. 

[Alan Fox]

If you look at the video , there is a huge cloud of fuel vapor at the moment of impact with the car , It should have ignited , but it didn't , extremely lucky.... as far as the stain , if it was a small spill there would not even be a stain , so my guess , and it is only a guess , is that there was at least 5 gallons or more in that tank......  Also as far as the wing separating , the wing is stressed for load based on lift , not so much drag , that being said , much weaker in the horizontal axis , than the vertical axis...

 

[chrisk]

4 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

If you look at the video , there is a huge cloud of fuel vapor at the moment of impact with the car , It should have ignited , but it didn't , extremely lucky.... as far as the stain , if it was a small spill there would not even be a stain , so my guess , and it is only a guess , is that there was at least 5 gallons or more in that tank......  Also as far as the wing separating , the wing is stressed for load based on lift , not so much drag , that being said , much weaker in the horizontal axis , than the vertical axis...

 

Who knows maybe it was jet fuel?  It might explain why the engine was not running.

[Shadrach]

21 minutes ago, mooniac15u said:

Contrary to what Hollywood likes to show us, liquid gasoline in tanks is not likely to explode. 

That is entirely dependent on the quantity of fuel in the tank.  Full tanks have way to rich a mixture to burn.  Tanks with just enough fuel to have some liquid remaining will cause quite a report.  A bladder or fuel tank that has a leak could certainly contain of a very combustable mixture. The explosion would not be hollywood style, but it would blow none the less.

[Shadrach]

13 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

If you look at the video , there is a huge cloud of fuel vapor at the moment of impact with the car , It should have ignited , but it didn't , extremely lucky.... as far as the stain , if it was a small spill there would not even be a stain , so my guess , and it is only a guess , is that there was at least 5 gallons or more in that tank......  Also as far as the wing separating , the wing is stressed for load based on lift , not so much drag , that being said , much weaker in the horizontal axis , than the vertical axis...

 

This^^^^

[mooniac15u]

Just now, Shadrach said:

That is entirely dependent on the quantity of fuel in the tank.  Full tanks have way to rich a mixture to burn.  Tanks with just enough fuel to have some liquid remaining will cause quite a report.  A bladder or fuel tank that has a leak could certainly contain of a very combustable mixture. The explosion would not be hollywood style, but it would blow none the less.

Even a partially full tank is unlikely to explode because there is unlikely to be sufficient oxygen to form a highly combustible mixture inside a tank. Cars crash all the time and their fuel tanks do not explode.

 

Just consider how hard we have to work to get fuel to burn in our cylinders and that fuel is almost entirely vaporized. 

[Piloto]

2 hours ago, chrisk said:

Thinking about this a bit, I was really surprised to see the wing ripped off.  I thought the spar was pretty stout and I would have expected some of it to remain.  Maybe someone with more knowledge of the internal construction can explain why it looked to be cleanly ripped off.

I was surprised too. The leading edge of the wing is bolt attached to the steel tubular structure. It looks that this attachment point failed first leading to the main and rear spar rupture. The main spar web is very strong in the vertical axis but not in the horizontal axis.

José 

[carusoam]

Adding to the safety discussion....

Now that we see the open ends of the tank and fuselage.  

Is there something that the Mooney factory could consider for improved fire safety to separate the cabin from the tank a little better?

something that could be installable in the rest of the fleet?

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

21 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Adding to the safety discussion....

Now that we see the open ends of the tank and fuselage.

Is there something that the Mooney factory could consider for improved fire safety to separate the cabin from the tank a little better?

something that could be installable in the rest of the fleet?

Best regards,

-a-

Be careful what you wish for this could result in a very expensive AD that we all would be forced to purchase.  As to the accident I am so thankful for the safe outcome for all those involved. Now the question is what happened

[Guest]

6 hours ago, chrisk said:

Thinking about this a bit, I was really surprised to see the wing ripped off.  I thought the spar was pretty stout and I would have expected some of it to remain.  Maybe someone with more knowledge of the internal construction can explain why it looked to be cleanly ripped off.

It's not at all surprising, think of the energy involved.  A 2400 pound plane doing 60-70 knots hits a 3000 pound car doing 30-40 mph.

2 modern aluminum airliners were able to pass through modern steel and concrete sky scrapers, it's all about the energy.

Clarence

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, bonal said:

Be careful what you wish for this could result in a very expensive AD that we all would be forced to purchase.  As to the accident I am so thankful for the safe outcome for all those involved. Now the question is what happened

 

I think there's a good chance that it was a fuel management issue.  There was fuel on board, but not very much.

 

 

[Alan Fox]

8 hours ago, mooniac15u said:

Even a partially full tank is unlikely to explode because there is unlikely to be sufficient oxygen to form a highly combustible mixture inside a tank. Cars crash all the time and their fuel tanks do not explode.

 

Just consider how hard we have to work to get fuel to burn in our cylinders and that fuel is almost entirely vaporized. 

Very much not correct , most planes burn , because on impact , the fuel is dispersed almost perfectly stoichiometric ...Look at that cloud in the video.....Perfect vapor....

[mooniac15u]

2 minutes ago, Alan Fox said:

Very much not correct , most planes burn , because on impact , the fuel is dispersed almost perfectly stoichiometric ...Look at that cloud in the video.....Perfect vapor....

That vapor cloud is outside the tank. An uncontained vapor cloud will ignite if it finds a heat/spark source.

I was only addressing the claim that fuel tanks would explode. 

[kortopates]

Adding to the safety discussion....

Now that we see the open ends of the tank and fuselage.  

Is there something that the Mooney factory could consider for improved fire safety to separate the cabin from the tank a little better?

something that could be installable in the rest of the fleet?

Best regards,

-a-

I think we all just saw it - Break Away wings! You can't hope for a better outcome. When the wing tank ruptures fuel flows out everywhere and a lot of it flows downhill on the lower wing skin into the cabin where the cockpit floor will be bathed in fuel. This is when you'll be happy you paid serious attention to those burn certs so you can get out while the fire is still smoldering; or regret you didn't. But if your injured or worse and unconscious your chances of survival go downhill rapidly with every second as the fire builds.

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[aviatoreb]

It was lucky the plane did not burn.  Fuel on the ground and fuel vapor in the air, and perhaps sparks from metal grinding on pavement.  Thank goodness.

This was not so lucky, even with a parachute. 

 

[carusoam]

I've had the fuel run into the cabin and soak the rear carpet in the old C.  There's got to be a better way.  No AD required.

An aged piece of decorative fabric stands between the cockpit and the torn wing.

Best regards,

-a-

[bonal]

7 hours ago, carusoam said:

I've had the fuel run into the cabin and soak the rear carpet in the old C.  There's got to be a better way.  No AD required.

An aged piece of decorative fabric stands between the cockpit and the torn wing.

Best regards,

-a-

There is, they're called bladders. I know, I know but any increase in fuel containment is a plus in my opinion