What would you think.

[Shadrach]

What would you think if after you boarded a 737, you spied this from you window seat as you were taxiing for departure? 

 

 

[M20F]

Looks like skydrol peeled some paint hard to tell from the picture.  

[Shadrach]

32 minutes ago, M20F said:

Looks like skydrol peeled some paint hard to tell from the picture.  

The missing paint was not my concern. The trailing edge of the flap looked to be bubbled under the paint..

[M20F]

Skydrol is my guess just bubbling and peeling the paint. 

[PTK]

Skydrol inhibits corrosion but will definitely soften and destroy the paint  But my question is shouldn't it be more obvious due to the green dye in Skydrol? Maybe it's not clear in the picture.

 

[Shadrach]

There was no green dye nor was the area visibly wet or damp in any way. There was streaking, but it was dry and grey.  There was a patch of flaking paint propagating back from the leading edge but the yellow prime coat was still intact. The stuff at the trailing edge was raised but the paint was still intact. I had no idea what it was, which is why I asked. 

[N201MKTurbo]

I was in a 767 that landed in Manchester UK without flaps once. No big deal.

[Andy95W]

9 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I was in a 767 that landed in Manchester UK without flaps once. No big deal.

Hope the guys/ladies up front felt the same way. In a jet airliner, I'd rather have an engine failure than a hydraulics failure. The landing distance calculations alone are a huge pain in the @$$.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, daver328 said:

What do I think? Hmm ... (The flaps are retracted during preflight inspection, even if the First Officer could see that from the ground) ... Looks like a fowler flap ... 

Perhaps they should divert to the Bahamas, where contract maintenance could not repair it, and company mechanics, tools and parts would need to be flown in? The repairs could take several days ... Maybe a new wing? ... meanwhile the pilots could be housed at a luxery  beach hotel at full perdiem and making trip-rig pay ... diligently studying their limitations and memory items laying on the beach ... eagerly waiting to do a maintenance test flight and then a ferry flight ... It could take a good week .... but anything for the company ... 

That would be going above and beyond the norm.  I'm sure the company would be pleased! Promotions for both crew would surely follow.

Clarence

[Calishere]

On ‎11‎/‎7‎/‎2015‎ ‎5‎:‎36‎:‎38‎, Shadrach said:

What would you think if after you boarded a 737, you spied this from you window seat as you were taxiing for departure? 

 

 

it'll buff....

[carqwik]

On an Aeromexico flight to Mexico making an intermediate stop in Guadalajara...on a 727 (in the 1980s)...the ground spoilers on the right side wouldn't retract after landing.  Solution...a ladder was brought to the leading edge of the wing, a bunch of guys climbed up, and they stomped on the spoilers to get them down...which they eventually got to go down.  100% true story.

 

[Calishere]

Just now, carqwik said:

On an Aeromexico flight to Mexico making an intermediate stop in Guadalajara...on a 727 (in the 1980s)...the ground spoilers on the right side wouldn't retract after landing.  Solution...a ladder was brought to the leading edge of the wing, a bunch of guys climbed up, and they stomped on the spoilers to get them down...which they eventually got to go down.  100% true story.

 

so in maintenance, if the problem cant be fixed with wd-40 or tape, you use a hammer... if hammer doesn't work you use bigger hammer..

[jetdriven]

Murphys law.  It it jams, force it. If it breaks, it needed replacing anyways. 

[Hank]

7 hours ago, Calishere said:

so in maintenance, if the problem cant be fixed with wd-40 or tape, you use a hammer... if hammer doesn't work you use bigger hammer..

The First Law of Percussive Maintenance:  if it doesn't work, hit it with a hammer. If it still doesn't work, get a bigger hammer.

The Second Law:  it if doesn't go, force it. It if breaks, it needed to be replaced anyway.

Everyone knows the First. I've seen mechanic's toolboxes at work have the Second on a sticker.

[mpg]

thing is, the OP saw this , paint problem when he got on the plane!

he could have run back out the door,,,   but really, it is no big deal!

I was mid flight on commercial, looking at the wing when I saw GALLONS! of viscous yellow fluid flowing out over the flaps and into the wind.

I showed it to the cabin crew, they said OK, we landed safely anyway,   good!  

[N201MKTurbo]

With the event in Manchester, I saw the flaps move just a bit from the stowed position, less then 5 deg. The approach was canceled and we flew around for about a half an hour. The captain announced that they had a hydraulic failure and they were talking with their maintenance people about it. Finally we did the no flaps approach in IMC. The landing seemed a bit faster then normal, but was done very well. 

Appearemtly, if the plane can be landed in the current configuration, they won't use the backup systems.

[Shadrach]

Daver, 

i appreciate your wisdom and experience on this matter. It was an uneventful flight. As I said earlier the paint flake was n really what go my attention. It was the trailing edge of the flap and it looked bubbled. Also, the trailing edge of that flap and the previously mentioned blemish was visible at the gate and through out the whole flight.

[Shadrach]

29 minutes ago, daver328 said:

Hi Ross! It looks like it needs some attention. Every 5-10 days (depending on carrier) the mechanics lower flaps and do several checks before signing an "airworthiness release" in the logbook. If I saw that on a walk around or a passenger mentioned it, I would definitely ask maintenance to look at that. Most pilots would. It looks pretty tired- even if it is airworthy. No disrespect intended towards you or your post. 

No offense taken. I ended up talking to the crew about another issue (my carry on was moved and I could not find it) and had a chance to chat with the pilot. I simply said that the trailing edge of the flap looked irregular and he told me he'd bring it to maintenances attention immediately. First time I ever flew this small, relatively unknown carrier based at KMSP.  I had a great experience and will use them again.

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, daver328 said:

Sun Country

Affirm. It was a budget choice that did not feel like a budget choice. It's not that the amenities were that great, but the Plane was clean, more space than UA economy and the staff had a good attitude. From DCA to SFO via MSP $273 round trip. Layover was just long enough. Connection was 2 gates away.  Pretty much the perfect amount of time to walk to Surdyk's for a sandwich.

I paid $370 for a RT day trip to SAN from SFO and AA totally screwed my whole day because they had no contingency plan for an MX issue.

[Calishere]

14 hours ago, Shadrach said:

Daver, 

i appreciate your wisdom and experience on this matter. It was an uneventful flight. As I said earlier the paint flake was n really what go my attention. It was the trailing edge of the flap and it looked bubbled. Also, the trailing edge of that flap and the previously mentioned blemish was visible at the gate and through out the whole flight.

From a maintenance aspect (USAF) , ill share some experiences I've had with situations like this.. Something like this more than likely will be in the forms as a delayed discrepancy.. so though a "serious"   condition may exist, it isn't necessarily something that will deter an aircraft from flying its mission. In our instance if we found something like that.. It would be looked at by Sheet metal / corrosion ... If it passes their checks it'll then be passed along to NDI .. and if it passes their checks.. it'll be put in the forms as something to watch for after a certain amount of  Hours or after each  flight. I highly doubt that its been overlooked in all honesty .. But again I come from a background that harps on preventative maintenance ..

[Mooney20]

21 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

With the event in Manchester, I saw the flaps move just a bit from the stowed position, less then 5 deg. The approach was canceled and we flew around for about a half an hour. The captain announced that they had a hydraulic failure and they were talking with their maintenance people about it. Finally we did the no flaps approach in IMC. The landing seemed a bit faster then normal, but was done very well. 

Appearemtly, if the plane can be landed in the current configuration, they won't use the backup systems.

I assure you that backup systems are generally used to the maximum extent possible in case of a primary system failure on any big airplane.

The 767 landing gear, flaps and slats are powered by the Center hydraulic system.  If service from that system is lost, there are alternate means of operation for each of the affected systems.  In the event of loss of Center hydraulic pressure, flaps and slats are extended by electric motors and a landing using flaps 20 is made.  Been there, done that, bought the T-shirt.  Normal landings use flaps 30.  Some operators land normally at flaps 25.

The scenario you describe, the flaps extended, stopped and didn't move again, sounds to me like a flap assymetry, which has nothing to do with hydraulics.  An assymetry is when the flaps don't extend evenly on each wing.  There is a component for the flaps and slats on the 767 that detects if either system is extending assymetrically.  If an assymetry is detected, operation of the flaps and slats are automatically stopped and things get busy in the cockpit.  In the case of a flap assymetry, a landing is made with flaps in whatever position they were in when the assymetry was detected.  Also been there, done that.

Well maintained big airplanes are very reliable.  In many years of flying the 767, I've had one loss of Center hydraulic system (leak in a spoiler panel actuator on the right wing) and one flap assymetry (not really an assymetry at all- the detecting box was at fault, but there's no way to tell that from the cockpit).

[N201MKTurbo]

Thanks for the info!