Rocket Engineering product support after a mishap

[KevinR]

After 25 years of mishap-free flying, I finally had to file an insurance claim.

Fortunately, no one was hurt.

And I wasn't anywhere near the aircraft when it happened...

Our (i.e. my mechanic & the prop shop owner who's been at it for 30 years) best guess is that a tug ran into the prop while it was parked somewhere.

Scary thing is I just flew 100+ miles over water to Grand Cayman. 

I'm a fanatic pre-flighter but I never noticed anything until I had the cowl off for an oil change. Something caught our eye so we pulled the spinner. Not a single mark on the blades. No vibration in flight. Obvious hub damage. More details to follow (and pictures!)

 

We are following the letter of the law: prop damage means prop overhaul. Prop overhaul means engine tear-down. My TSIO-520 happens to have ECi cylinders, and the fine print in the AD requires me to throw the jugs in the garbage if they are removed from the engine. Alas, I've decided to go ahead and overhaul the motor. 

 

So I've been taking the bus to visit customers all month. I'm probably preaching to the choir but nothing beats a Mooney for cost-effective, fast transportation. Just to help me justify the rather large check I'm going to be writing, I've been keeping careful notes on the travel times on various 757's, 737's and A-320's. Would you believe that my Rocket can get me from Ocala to DENVER (my driveway to customer office) faster than a non-stop commercial flight out of Orlando? GA is a game-changing business tool. 

 

A big reason I'm posting this is to tell the Mooney world about the fantastic support I'm getting from Rocket Engineering. Even though they haven't done a piston conversion in 20 years, they still support the product like it was their #1 line of business. They have the original jigs for the engine mount & exhaust and they quoted a very reasonable price to bring those items back to like-new condition. What's even more impressive is the tech support they've offered gratis. When the prop shop asked for engineering drawings for the prop setup, Tim Moore spent an hour digging up exactly what we needed, scanned everything, and emailed it over to me. When the insurance company balked at the estimate for removing and reinstalling the motor, Rocket researched their records to figure out how long it used to take them to do the job. If anyone out there is considering buying a Rocket, rest assured the factory support is outstanding. And they turned a great airplane into the best damned airplane I've ever flown. Yes, these numbers are real: http://www.rocketengineering.com/content/rocket-performance

 

Can't wait to see what she will do at 24,000' with Gamis, Tempest fine-wires, and Millennium cylinders! 

 

 

[Bravoman]

Those are impressive numbers! Looks a bit quicker than the Bravo. And it is good to see another Gator in the flight levels!

Regards, Frank

[rocketman]

Since I own both a Bravo and Rocket, I can comment on the two with relative authority. The Bravo is like driving a Ford Flex (which I also own) with twin turbo chargers in a long body vehicle with relatively more comfort while the Rocket is like driving a (four seat) NASCAR vehicle (which I don't own but can just imagine) with more power, speed, and acceleration in a modestly smaller cabin. 

[Openwheeler3]

Great to hear!

[Bravoman]

Since I own both a Bravo and Rocket, I can comment on the two with relative authority. The Bravo is like driving a Ford Flex (which I also own) with twin turbo chargers in a long body vehicle with relatively more comfort while the Rocket is like driving a (four seat) NASCAR vehicle (which I don't own but can just imagine) with more power, speed, and acceleration in a modestly smaller cabin.

I don't know about the Flex comparo--those things look like an icebox on wheels!

[aviatoreb]

In the few small items we have needed rocket engineering support for over the year, most notably an exhaust stack overhaul, the rocket engineering tech support and advice has been fantastic.  When the mooney factory was belly up, it was nice to have a real company standing behind their product, in rocket engineering.

[Houman]

After 25 years of mishap-free flying, I finally had to file an insurance claim.

Fortunately, no one was hurt.

And I wasn't anywhere near the aircraft when it happened...

Our (i.e. my mechanic & the prop shop owner who's been at it for 30 years) best guess is that a tug ran into the prop while it was parked somewhere.

Scary thing is I just flew 100+ miles over water to Grand Cayman. 

I'm a fanatic pre-flighter but I never noticed anything until I had the cowl off for an oil change. Something caught our eye so we pulled the spinner. Not a single mark on the blades. No vibration in flight. Obvious hub damage. More details to follow (and pictures!)

 

We are following the letter of the law: prop damage means prop overhaul. Prop overhaul means engine tear-down. My TSIO-520 happens to have ECi cylinders, and the fine print in the AD requires me to throw the jugs in the garbage if they are removed from the engine. Alas, I've decided to go ahead and overhaul the motor. 

 

So I've been taking the bus to visit customers all month. I'm probably preaching to the choir but nothing beats a Mooney for cost-effective, fast transportation. Just to help me justify the rather large check I'm going to be writing, I've been keeping careful notes on the travel times on various 757's, 737's and A-320's. Would you believe that my Rocket can get me from Ocala to DENVER (my driveway to customer office) faster than a non-stop commercial flight out of Orlando? GA is a game-changing business tool. 

 

A big reason I'm posting this is to tell the Mooney world about the fantastic support I'm getting from Rocket Engineering. Even though they haven't done a piston conversion in 20 years, they still support the product like it was their #1 line of business. They have the original jigs for the engine mount & exhaust and they quoted a very reasonable price to bring those items back to like-new condition. What's even more impressive is the tech support they've offered gratis. When the prop shop asked for engineering drawings for the prop setup, Tim Moore spent an hour digging up exactly what we needed, scanned everything, and emailed it over to me. When the insurance company balked at the estimate for removing and reinstalling the motor, Rocket researched their records to figure out how long it used to take them to do the job. If anyone out there is considering buying a Rocket, rest assured the factory support is outstanding. And they turned a great airplane into the best damned airplane I've ever flown. Yes, these numbers are real: http://www.rocketengineering.com/content/rocket-performance

 

Can't wait to see what she will do at 24,000' with Gamis, Tempest fine-wires, and Millennium cylinders! 

 

 

I agree, altough I don`t have else experience than the 100 hours I have done on my Rocket, it is an amazing plane for it's price.

 

I also had to deal with Rocket, the support was great, but it took them along time to do my exhaust overhall after my mecanic found a small crack in my transition turbo pipe. Their price was resonnable, my mechanic was not, so it ended costing me alot.

 

I have talked to the Rocket guys couple of times and everytime I was pleased with how they are eager to help a Rocket owner, even if the don`t do this STC installations anymore...

 

Which I could get one of their newer STC'ed planes...

[aviatoreb]

After 25 years of mishap-free flying, I finally had to file an insurance claim.

Fortunately, no one was hurt.

And I wasn't anywhere near the aircraft when it happened...

Our (i.e. my mechanic & the prop shop owner who's been at it for 30 years) best guess is that a tug ran into the prop while it was parked somewhere.

Scary thing is I just flew 100+ miles over water to Grand Cayman. 

I'm a fanatic pre-flighter but I never noticed anything until I had the cowl off for an oil change. Something caught our eye so we pulled the spinner. Not a single mark on the blades. No vibration in flight. Obvious hub damage. More details to follow (and pictures!)

 

We are following the letter of the law: prop damage means prop overhaul. Prop overhaul means engine tear-down. My TSIO-520 happens to have ECi cylinders, and the fine print in the AD requires me to throw the jugs in the garbage if they are removed from the engine. Alas, I've decided to go ahead and overhaul the motor. 

 

So I've been taking the bus to visit customers all month. I'm probably preaching to the choir but nothing beats a Mooney for cost-effective, fast transportation. Just to help me justify the rather large check I'm going to be writing, I've been keeping careful notes on the travel times on various 757's, 737's and A-320's. Would you believe that my Rocket can get me from Ocala to DENVER (my driveway to customer office) faster than a non-stop commercial flight out of Orlando? GA is a game-changing business tool. 

 

A big reason I'm posting this is to tell the Mooney world about the fantastic support I'm getting from Rocket Engineering. Even though they haven't done a piston conversion in 20 years, they still support the product like it was their #1 line of business. They have the original jigs for the engine mount & exhaust and they quoted a very reasonable price to bring those items back to like-new condition. What's even more impressive is the tech support they've offered gratis. When the prop shop asked for engineering drawings for the prop setup, Tim Moore spent an hour digging up exactly what we needed, scanned everything, and emailed it over to me. When the insurance company balked at the estimate for removing and reinstalling the motor, Rocket researched their records to figure out how long it used to take them to do the job. If anyone out there is considering buying a Rocket, rest assured the factory support is outstanding. And they turned a great airplane into the best damned airplane I've ever flown. Yes, these numbers are real: http://www.rocketengineering.com/content/rocket-performance

 

Can't wait to see what she will do at 24,000' with Gamis, Tempest fine-wires, and Millennium cylinders! 

 

Hi Kevin,

 

I am sorry to hear about your troubles. Glad to hear you caught it on the ground.  I am sure you will enjoy the new engine.

 

Are you getting a new prop or a prop overhaul?

 

I am curious what factors went into your decision for Millennium's?

 

I agree - It is amazing that the airlines are so slow - from here where it is at least 1.5hr drive to the closest major airport (Ottawa, Ontario) and from there, there are rarely direct connections to where I want to go in the USA, it is surprising how much of the country I can reach faster by Mooney than by jet.  Airline jets are fast, but most of the time is spent standing still.

[Jeff_S]

All that sounds great, but I just have one question about the rationale. The prop strike, in and of itself, shouldn't mean an engine tear-down, unless the prop was moving at the time. Are you saying that because you operated the airplane for some unknown amount of time after the incident that this causes the tear-down, that there was potential for crankshaft damage or something? Just curious.

[carusoam]

Prop strike definitions have been updated in the last five years.

Depending on the manufacturer.

They used to check the crank for run-out.

Too many things can escape that simple test.

It is tough news when you get the call from the mechanic.

It would be tougher news to find out yourself while flying....

A plane at my home drome got hit on the prop while tied down. The owner decided to take the engine mount, engine, prop and cowl off for OH. Two of the blades were visibly damaged.

Unless you have video of the accident, it would be a real challenge to know what actually happened. How hard the hit really was. There are no crumple zones to make things look horrific while absorbing energy.

Insurance is typically prepared for this as well.

Great news if you are about OH the engine anyways. The R&R, about 10AMU is now on someone else.

Unfortunately there probably won't be a free factory reman included with that.

Sounds like a good part of the prop cost could be up for negotiation. Prop technology has improved in the last five years as well.

Timing: A factory reman engine can be finished and sent in a couple of weeks. A matching TopProp, takes about six weeks to deliver.

Rocket engineering has produced some nice Mooney upgrades. My favorite product was the NA Missile. Mooney turned the proven Missile idea into the O.

Good luck with your next steps,

-a-

[KevinR]

Thanks for the comments.

I'm getting a new hub and overhauling the blades. The blades are in great shape; 'like new' according to the prop shop.

Decided to go with the Millenium cylinders on the advice of several overhaul shops. I fly almost every week so corrosion is less of a concern which negates the benefit of the chrome jugs. Supposedly the millenium's run a little cooler, too.

I decided to tear down the engine because I can't be 100% certain about what caused the prop damage. She flew perfectly fine and you couldn't really see any damage until we pulled the spinner. The damage probably happened in Grand Cayman when the engine wasn't running but I don't like the word 'probably' in the context of my rear end strapped into an airplane.

I considered the factory reman route and considered getting an engine from Ram. Honestly Ram was my first choice. They had an engine on the shelf and the price was in the ballpark. I have a few hundred hours in Ram powered twin Cessna's & I really liked the product. I was about to place the order when I ran into an old friend who manages several twin Cessna's and has purchased many Ram engines. He nearly threatened to end our friendship if I did business with Ram. He apparently had a horrible customer service experience with them last year.

In the end I went with Certified Engines in Opa Locka. My mechanic had worked with them, Allen Weiss has been rebuilding engines for thirty years, and he's known Larry at Palm Beach propeller for a long time.

Ironically (or fortunately) my medical, BFR, and annual all expire this month anyway. And we just found out our oldest child (of four!) needs braces. I sure am getting good at writing checks!