druidjaidan Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 As part of trying to purchase a Mooney we've started seeking out insurance quotes. We've tried though AOPA and Falcon Insurance and in both cases only had one underwriter willing to write a policy. The price wasn't insane, but the most complicated part was that they required 5 hours dual and 5 hours solo...for both myself (which was completely reasonable, 80 hours TT and 0 retract) and my partner a CFII. We hadn't expected that and anticipated that I'd just be able to knock out my dual time with him (likely as part of retrieving the plane). In order for the underwriter to allow the CFI he needs to meet the open pilot waiver: Minimum of 500 total logged hours including 100 hours in retractable gear aircraft and 25 hours in the make and model. How have you gotten over that hurdle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsengle Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I got my retract experience by owning an Arrow first (was a plan to have a starter retract to get my instrument in) and I was lucky that my CFII had 25 hours in Mooney. I asked and make and model covered any M20... You'll probably have to find such a check out instructor... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSMooniac Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 You'll need to find a CFI with Mooney experience first. Have him check out your CFII partner (perhaps with you riding along in back as an observer) and then get your partner to check you out. Paying for a Mooney-specific instructor to do this is HIGHLY recommended as you'll learn good habits vs. just getting any ol' CFI to give you an easy checkout. Getting said Mooney-CFI to help you bring the new plane home is a good way to start. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I have the same requirements, before I got my M20 E I drove down to Virginia many times to fly with a flight instructor who had a M20 E. I was told this is a low requirement. carl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druidjaidan Posted July 24, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 I have the same requirements, before I got my M20 E I drove down to Virginia many times to fly with a flight instructor who had a M20 E. I was told this is a low requirement. carl The requirement is totally reasonable as is the rate surprisingly for how low my hours where. It's just going to be a nasty annoyance to find a way to get the time for my partner. We didn't really want to pay to have it ferried since it would be an enjoyable flight, but unless we work out a way to get the time it's likely unavoidable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 24, 2015 Report Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hire a qualified pilot and have him sit right seat while one of you flies it back. Then get to a MAPA PPP! I bought my Mooney with 62 hours, and needed 15 dual with an experienced Mooney CFII, including 5 hours Instrument time. I hit 100 hours total time enroute to the PPP a couple of hours away. I figured I had learned to fly, and learned to fly the Mooney, now it was time to learn to fly it the right way. Have fun! Remember, that's why most of us are flying, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloridaMan Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Get someone who knows Mooneys to fly with you and stay conservative in your decision making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 As part of trying to purchase a Mooney we've started seeking out insurance quotes. We've tried though AOPA and Falcon Insurance and in both cases only had one underwriter willing to write a policy. The price wasn't insane, but the most complicated part was that they required 5 hours dual and 5 hours solo...for both myself (which was completely reasonable, 80 hours TT and 0 retract) and my partner a CFII. We hadn't expected that and anticipated that I'd just be able to knock out my dual time with him (likely as part of retrieving the plane). In order for the underwriter to allow the CFI he needs to meet the open pilot waiver: Minimum of 500 total logged hours including 100 hours in retractable gear aircraft and 25 hours in the make and model. How have you gotten over that hurdle? So how many hours does the instructor have? Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druidjaidan Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 My partner has 700TT, 60 retract, 0 in type. I'm much newer and planned on a solid block of training myself, 85tt, 0 retract. But I had hoped to basically do that training with my partner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I started my instrument training when I got my mooney. Ironically, my CFII didn't meet the open pilot clause, so I had to add him to the policy. Mine actually required 10 dual/10 solo before flying passengers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsxrpilot Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Unfortunately you'll need a different CFI. I had the same situation when I bought mine. Me 300TT, 30 Retract, 0 in Type. My brother a CFII/ATP, 16,000+ Retract, 0 in type. We found a CFI with 800 in type. We bought 10 hours of his time over two days. It was worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbridges Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I didn't catch the part about your friend being a CFII. I'm not sure why my CFII didn't require dual. Maybe he had more complex hours or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N601RX Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 My 1st policy required 15 of dual with instructor and an additional 10 solo hrs before any passengers. Check with TJ at Airpower. They seem to be well connected with many underwriters. There is as reason why they want the instructor to have 25 in make and model, you don't want the instructor learning with the student. There is also a problem that some instructors have more than 25 mm and have never took the controls for more than a few seconds at the time while there student was getting their IFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MB65E Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 Where are you located? I'll take an IPC check with him in my E...That would account for some time. I had about 3 hrs in M20C's with a few buddies. Then another 40 or so in an M20M with a friend. At the time Falcon didn't require any E time for me. My partner with 3000k hrs, 2500 multi, and 2700 retract was actually required to obtain time in the E before he was covered. They can make up whatever times they feel comfortable with. We have been happy with Falcon. -Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLCarter Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 When I purched my E I asked how many hours I would need before I was able to go solo and then with passengers, was told it was up to my CFI, this was thru AOPA. 250ish hrs and Instrument rated at the time, they never asked about my CFI. This was a year ago in August. Not sure why they are requiring your CFI too jump thru the hoops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrBill Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 My requirement was 10 hr dual and 10 solo with an instructor with 100 hrs of Mooney time. I found one at our local airport and soon had my 10 hrs done (4 flights). Then for my 10 hr solo I went to 10 different airports that I had not been to before and that was a great challange and experience. (4 more flights). BILL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
druidjaidan Posted July 25, 2015 Author Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I think my problem is solved. Found out from a CFI over on the pacificnorthwestflying.com forums that one of the nearby schools has a J model for for complex training. Only annoying because it's the most expensive school in the area. Oh well I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will W Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I urge you to think differently on this checkout. You are likely flying with other people whose lives depend on you. Please don't be cheap when it comes to this and don't think you're getting unfair treatment from the insurance company. People have paid for this requirement with their lives and statistics prove their methods. I give these checkouts frequently in customers own aircraft and they all will learn a lot. Look into the MAPA Safety Foundation or the Mooney Flyer for CFIs that are all highly recommended in your area that specialize in Mooney's because they all fly their own Mooney's. Most customers do have your same requirements and the common thing is 2-3 days dual on long cross countries into a higher and higher challenge area and then set you free and do some solo flying NOT IN THE LOCAL AREA (this is my requirement). When you buy a plane, it's usually not at your home airport so building dual time is usually helping get it home. I like to make it a fun thing so if the new aircraft is purchased in Florida, I'll head to Key West or some place they haven't been as a pilot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 what does 5 hours dual.and 5 hours solo mean anyway . 5 hours with a covered instructor . and then what? 5 hours solo before you are covered ?. Do you fly solo without coverage then or just you are covered but cant carry people till you have 10 hours total time . now im confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 what does 5 hours dual.and 5 hours solo mean anyway . 5 hours with a covered instructor . It means get 5 hours dual instruction from a covered instructor ,then fly another 5 hours solo before flying with any passengers. This is pretty light, many insurance companies will require 10-15 dual and 10 solo. My CFII had to get 5 hours to teach me in my plane, despite having multi-thousand ATP hours with the airlines. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donkaye Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 I think my problem is solved. Found out from a CFI over on the pacificnorthwestflying.coem forums that one of the nearby schools has a J model for for complex training. Only annoying because it's the most expensive school in the area. Oh well I guess. You might want to check out my website, as I have a few hours in Mooneys and am located in California. I did one Acclaim checkout in North Dakota a couple of years ago in the middle of January. I soloed him at 25 hours (the insurance requirement) with the temperature +1°. www.donkaye.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtVandelay Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 My CFII had to get 5 hours to teach me in my plane, despite having multi-thousand ATP hours with the airlines. ??? Which is kinda of silly when you think about it, the CFI doesn't fly the plane, how much can you learn sitting in a plane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carl Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 thats pretty good . just 5 hour dual .that was my requirment but i ended up having more before i was comfortable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_elliott Posted July 25, 2015 Report Share Posted July 25, 2015 You might want to check out my website, as I have a few hours in Mooneys and am located in California. I did one Acclaim checkout in North Dakota a couple of years ago in the middle of January. I soloed him at 25 hours (the insurance requirement) with the temperature +1°. www.donkaye.com Have you forgiven me for that yet Don? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryoder Posted July 28, 2015 Report Share Posted July 28, 2015 You could have your instructor fly the plane with you for five hours and self insure for those five hours. It's not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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