Anybody know N721PG

[chrisk]

I was casually looking at Mooneys and came across N721PG.  I'm not really in the market since I love my 231, but the price on this "R" was attractive.  Does anyone know this bird?  http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20R-OVATION/1997-MOONEY-M20R-OVATION/1370181.htm 

 

[AndyFromCB]

Ok,

 

Having have bought a bird with about the same total time and a tad more upgrades, here are my two cents: be ready to blow thru $20K to $30K or so getting it back in tip top shape mechanically without any engine work. I'd look over the logbooks and search for the following:

 

-HSI overhaul (both the head and gyro)

-FD overhaul

-servos 

-autopilot head

-oxygen system (a ton on mooneys out there flying with 'place carded' tanks and regulators that have never seen overhaul)

-speed brakes

-all kinds of little rod end fittings (these add up quickly)

 

-TKS 

 

Generally the fire sale priced aircraft have suffered for a few years from much delayed maintenance. People just accept things not working properly trying to pinch pennies.

[Alan Fox]

Clean history , looks like 1 owner...

[DAVIDWH]

Engine time is climbing a bit, (1491)  prob. the reason for a fair price.

 

However, my Ovation flew to 2200 before overhaul. (2000 TBO)

 

Anyway you cut the pie, keep a little change in the back pocket.

[orionflt]

Prop strike in 2012, did they tear down the engine? or just do the minimums? if it was a full tear down then I would feel pretty good about the engine, if they just ran out the crank then you might as well call the engine TBO.

 

Brian

[Houman]

That was my thinking as well, doesn't a full tear down and overhaul resets the engine overhaul time, since they are indicating 1491 SMOH, doesn't that mean they just did the minimum if anything.

 

Just wondering !

[chrisk]

I too am wondering about the prop strike, and who has done the maintenance.  I called the broker, but no answer so far.  Maybe I find an excuse to visit my dad, as he lives about 15 minutes away from this plane. --If only he knew anything about planes, I would have him take a look.  The best I could hope for are excellent pictures of the N number, the data plate, and maybe a stone chip (but more likely a bug spat).

[orionflt]

That was my thinking as well, doesn't a full tear down and overhaul resets the engine overhaul time, since they are indicating 1491 SMOH, doesn't that mean they just did the minimum if anything.

 

Just wondering !

It will not reset the clock unless it meets the requirements, I did an IRAN to my engine, it basically has a new bottom end with the same cylinders but my clock didn't get reset, but knowing that I will comfortably go beyond TBO as long as all the indications are normal.

 

Brian 

[KSMooniac]

Looks like a decent price IMO for an un-upgraded early Ovation.  It will obviously need pretty substantial panel upgrades for the ADS-B requirements, but at that price it leaves a lot of headroom to upgrade without getting upside-down quickly.  TKS if you need it adds even more value to the plane.  I'd rather buy an engine on the back half of the TBO run after it is proven so long as the sale price reflects it, then overhaul/replace on my terms.

[AndyFromCB]

BTW, that's a Hartzell prop on that Ovation, which is a major plus as well...

[LANCECASPER]

I went and looked at it personally in April. Tanks are leaking, shock discs are original, paint is much rougher than the pictures show, oxygen tank is timed out, turn coordinator is inop, the LED display is going on the KLN89B, TKS is suspect - does not distribute all the way across on either side. Times in the ad are a year ago in October. Total time is now 3827.9, meaning engine time is now around 1650 TT. Of course it is out of annual so there's an unknown there as well.

[chrisk]

LanceCasper:  Now, that's what I was looking for. Thanks so much.  Too much of a project for me.  Also, I spoke with the broker and this is a repo.

[bonal]

oooh maybe they can use it for an episode of AIRPLANE...REPO...

[AndyFromCB]

I went and looked at it personally in April. Tanks are leaking, shock discs are original, paint is much rougher than the pictures show, oxygen tank is timed out, turn coordinator is inop, TKS is suspect - does not distribute all the way across on either side. Times in the ad are a year ago in October. total time is now 3827.9, meaning engine time is now around 1650 TT. Of course it is out of annual so there's an unknown there as well.

 

Yeap, about what I said without seeing the plane. All the usual suspects...

[AndyFromCB]

So if you have the time and can get the plane for 100 grand you can build yourself a perfect ovation for another 100 grand but it will take time

[kmyfm20s]

LanceCasper:  Now, that's what I was looking for. Thanks so much.  Too much of a project for me.  Also, I spoke with the broker and this is a repo.

Did they get the log books?

[Steve Dawson]

Avionics                                                                                     -$30,000.00- (GTN plus, GDL 88, GTX 330)

Rebuilt engine                                                                           -$45,000.00  (Estimate only and possibly low)

Tank seal, Annual plus unknown missing maintenance items,

TKS fix, possible paint touch up                                                -$20,000.00 ++

 

If you bought this aircraft at the right price and almost a $100K extra and even and with the TKS would this plane be worth $220 to $230K?

[Alan Fox]

No the real value in this airplane is to buy it for 110 , fly it for 5 years and then sell it for 85K , The only thing it needs is tanks resealed and the fact that its leaking around the panels it may be a cheap fix , would need further inspection, maybe a set of gear stacks.......

[AndyFromCB]

Avionics                                                                                     -$30,000.00- (GTN plus, GDL 88, GTX 330)

Rebuilt engine                                                                           -$45,000.00  (Estimate only and possibly low)

Tank seal, Annual plus unknown missing maintenance items,

TKS fix, possible paint touch up                                                -$20,000.00 ++

 

If you bought this aircraft at the right price and almost a $100K extra and even and with the TKS would this plane be worth $220 to $230K?

 

No, 

 

But you're looking at it the wrong way. Most of the $230K planes have issues too. If you can talk this one down to $110, you can have a perfect bird from the point of view of reliability. But like I said, it will take time…I all depends of what you value. My Bravo is ultra reliable now, but I bought it for the airframe mostly. It took me almost a year to make it perfect. I'm going to be $50K in the hole if I sell it.

[AndyFromCB]

Avionics                                                                                     -$30,000.00- (GTN plus, GDL 88, GTX 330)

Rebuilt engine                                                                           -$45,000.00  (Estimate only and possibly low)

Tank seal, Annual plus unknown missing maintenance items,

TKS fix, possible paint touch up                                                -$20,000.00 ++

 

If you bought this aircraft at the right price and almost a $100K extra and even and with the TKS would this plane be worth $220 to $230K?

 

Don't forget another $15K for instrument/servo overhaul, bet you that autopilot doesn't track worth shit right now...

[aviatoreb]

My airplane had uneven tks flow when I purchased it 5 years ago.  Some of the panels were not producing any fluid.  It had not been run in 2 or 3 years and the sponges had dried up  - as it turned out.  I was willing to take the chance since the price was good - so bought it with the possibility that major tks work might be needed.  As it turns out after simply running lots of tks fluid through the system all panels work fine and have ever since. I think I ran 10 or 15 gallons through the system all in one shot while on the ground - and made a big mess on the ground.  But it cured the problem.

[KSMooniac]

No the real value in this airplane is to buy it for 110 , fly it for 5 years and then sell it for 85K , The only thing it needs is tanks resealed and the fact that its leaking around the panels it may be a cheap fix , would need further inspection, maybe a set of gear stacks.......

 

actually I think I read over the years that the sealant and/or application was sub-par from the factory in the mid- to late-90's, so I'd assume a full reseal would be in order.  Still a potentially decent airplane in my opinion with TKS already installed AND not locked into G1000 systems.  It leaves lots of room for updating & customizing to the next owner's specs.