Sunday was a very, very bad day

[PTK]

Two plane crashes and three deaths on Sunday!

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Plane-Crashes-Near-West-Chester-Airport-297932021.html

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Teen-Pilot-Dies-in-Virginia-Plane-Crash-297936441.html

[ArtVandelay]

Wow, feel for the families as well as the instructor of the 16 year old student pilot, can't imagine what he is going through.

[Marauder]

I don't think they have announced the occupants of the Brandywine crash but we suspect the instructor on board was from the flight school. If it was him, he was a high time experienced instructor. Very sad situation.

[Wakeup]

Very Sad...Prayers going up for the families and friends. Troy

[bonal]

Always hate to hear these accounts. Always feels like we've lost friends even though we may not know them. My prayers will include the friends and families.

[FloridaMan]

PA28s have had a very bad track record the past 2 years. I can think of 4 accidents in tampa bay, all pa28s in that time frame. One off of 60, one crashed on McMullen booth two fatalities, one at kvnc, two beachgoers killed and one in Vinoy park near kspg. Most are believed to be fuel management related.

[DXB]

I don't think they have announced the occupants of the Brandywine crash but we suspect the instructor on board was from the flight school. If it was him, he was a high time experienced instructor. Very sad situation.

Looks like they released names of victims from the Brandywine crash:

 

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Brandywine-Airport-Plane-Crash-Deaths-298313821.html

[Marauder]

Looks like they released names of victims from the Brandywine crash:

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Brandywine-Airport-Plane-Crash-Deaths-298313821.html

Yeah, I saw that come up. The instructor had quite a bio. These accidents really bother me. Not because they happen, but they happen to more seasoned aviators than me. If they can't mitigate a successful outcome, what chance do I have?

Rick Poch – CFI, CFII, MEI, ATP, Gold Seal Instructor Certificate

Total hours – approx. 12,000

Rick is a retired United States Air Force Colonel who has been with TAS Inc. since July 2002. He has been actively instructing since 1979 at USAF Aero Clubs, and also at Delaware Skyways in Wilmington, Delaware. He obtained his instructor ratings at the Edwards Air Force Base and Wright-Patterson Air Force Base Aero Clubs.

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[DXB]

Very sad, and certainly sobering when it happens to a pilot of superior experience and ability.  Unfortunately, most initial media reports of GA crashes are devoid of any reliable information that lets us understand and learn- our best instincts after these events.  Yet these instincts in an information vacuum produce only ungrounded speculation and fear.  

[PTK]

I have flown in and out of there on several occasions and recall posted takeoff instructions on a sign at runway entrance.

 

I went back in the AFD and found it:

 

TFC DEPARTING RY 27 TURN RIGHT 10 DEG UNTIL REACHING 1200 FT MSL TO AVOID MANSION LEFT & HOMES RIGHT.  

 

The purpose of this is to put departing aircraft over some vacant fields.

 

Not sure what altitude their problems began and not sure if they followed these instructions. 

 

What's puzzling is that the crash site is LEFT of the departure path.

[Marauder]

I have flown in and out of there on several occasions and recall posted takeoff instructions on a sign at runway entrance.

I went back in the AFD and found it:

TFC DEPARTING RY 27 TURN RIGHT 10 DEG UNTIL REACHING 1200 FT MSL TO AVOID MANSION LEFT & HOMES RIGHT.

The purpose of this is to put departing aircraft over some vacant fields.

Not sure what altitude their problems began and not sure if they followed these instructions.

What's puzzling is that the crash site is LEFT of the departure path.

Based on witness accounts (take them for what they are worth), after an initial sputtering the engine was heard making steady power before sputtering again. I wonder if he was returning to the downwind.

The instruction posted on that sign is to keep planes away from Greystone Hall which is a big wedding venue. This picture shows two stars on it. One is over Greystone Hall, the other is where the plane went down.

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[PTK]

It's possible they were returning to the dw which they could've done from the right just as well.

I just can't see how they ended up so far left. They were supposed to be at least that much to the right. But this assumes they didn't ignore the instruction to turn 10 deg right.

Maybe they would've had a better chance putting it in the clear.

[Marauder]

It's possible they were returning to the dw which they could've done from the right just as well.

I just can't see how they ended up so far left. They were supposed to be at least that much to the right. But this assumes they didn't ignore the instruction to turn 10 deg right.

Maybe they would've had a better chance putting it in the clear.

It's hard to speculate as Monday Morning Pilots what was going through their heads. There was a strong northerly wind that day and since it was possibly a BFR, he was letting the pilot do his thing and they drifted south.

More likely though was the possibility that they were returning to the airport. The plane reportedly restored power for a bit which would make me think they started to return to the airport in hopes of getting back to the airport.

I just hope I never get presented a situation like that...

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[PTK]

Monday morning or Friday morning it's all the same. Fact of the matter is two pilots perished in a most horrific accident. One of them very experienced. More than I'll ever be.

I'm trying to see if they could've had half a chance of survival had they turned right as instructed. There are larger clearings with no trees to the right of dep path.

Is this another one of those links in the chain? It's posted but it's not mandatory. Have gotten away with it before so it's ok?

We all hope we never get presented with a situation like that.

[Hank]

Peter, Monday Morning Pilots is the aviation equivalent of Monday Morning Quarterbacks, when the game is played on Sunday. Hindsight is always better than foresight, since the results of the decisions are known.

We don't know if they followed the recommended noise abatement procedure or not, but that may come to light during the investigation.

Sometimes we have to make decisions whose ramifications are not known, with no opportunity to change our minds. Thus the oft suggested advice to think about engine loss procedures for each takeoff, and to discuss them prior to taking the runway.

[Marauder]

Peter -- I looked closer at your question because I was curious as well since I have been in and out of Brandywine a whole bunch over the past 2 years. First of all, those "fields" you mention are not that landing friendly. If he was able to reach the field, there are two hedge rows with trees that divide the field. Using the runway length as the measure, the first portion of the field before the first hedge row would be around 470' long, the second 780' and the third 1181' before the tree line.

When I started measuring things and looking at the local conditions that day, ironically the accident site looks to be around 2000' from the end of the runway and the very edge of the first field to be around 2400'. Considering the strength of the wind, lower altitude because of a misfiring engine and the gliding distance of a Cherokee 140, I doubt they would have made it to the field. Based on the final location of the plane, I wonder if he was trying to make it to Route 202.