Can I use car battery charger for the Mooney?

[par]

Before I go and spend $200+ for a "special airplane battery charger", I thought I'd come on here and ask whether I can use my car battery charger/tender instead. My Mooney has a Gill sealed battery in it at the moment (see attached picture). Now, i'm aware that if I google the question, the first website to pop up is batteryminder and of course, they don't want us charging our airplane batteries with anything but their expensive product. Call me crazy, but it sounds like nothing more than a sales pitch. I don't know how old the current battery is but with it being as cold as it is, I don't want to leave it sitting without a charger on it. 

[ArtVandelay]

Are you going to leave it plugged in a regular basis or for extended use? Or only use it to charge a drained battery?

[par]

Are you going to leave it plugged in a regular basis or for extended use? Or only use it to charge a drained battery?

For now, it is just to bring it back up to a full charge I do plan on leaving it plugged in.

[ArtVandelay]

For now, it is just to bring it back up to a full charge I do plan on leaving it plugged in.

If using it 24/7 it will leave the battery undercharge, sulfation will occur and the battery capacity will be reduced. Expensive battery chargers suppose to prevent this.

[par]

If using it 24/7 it will leave the battery undercharge, sulfation will occur and the battery capacity will be reduced. Expensive battery chargers suppose to prevent this.

 

 

I understand that is the main selling point but why doesn't the same occur to my expensive sealed AGM battery if left on the battery tender?

[FBCK]

I killed a Gill a two years ago by charging it on a so called smart car charger. I changed the battery to a Concord and they recommend a specific calibrated Battery Minder for that battery, which I purchased.

[bonal]

I understand that is the main selling point but why doesn't the same occur to my expensive sealed AGM battery if left on the battery tender?

 

 

How do you know it wont.  What I read on the Concords is that in order to reduce weight aircraft batts use a stronger acid than auto batts to make voltage and when charged this stronger acid burns down the cells faster

[Dale Logsdon]

My current battery is a gill non-sealed 5years old and stays on a automotive battery maintainer 24/7 since new, no problems.

 

Been using automotive chargers for 35 years on airplanes but limit the output to 6 amps.

[ArtVandelay]

I understand that is the main selling point but why doesn't the same occur to my expensive sealed AGM battery if left on the battery tender?

Special procedure, usually something like higher than normal charging voltage for an hour every 28 days, called equalization. Different battery types also require different charging voltages, also aircraft batteries have thinner plates, be careful of charging currents.

Then there is 2 stage and 3 stage chargers...its complicated.

BTW, you won't notice anything right away, it's a slow death.

[Yetti]

This is a pretty good article for the AGM. http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/interior-electrical/hrdp-1009-how-to-charge-a-agm-battery/   The Gill is a Sealed Lead Acid.  Regular car chargers are pretty good at killing SLA batteries.  What I have found is the little wall warts at 12volt DC are pretty good at maintaining motorcycle batteries and SLA batteries.  Some people put them on a household timer.   If you think about what is coming out of your alternator or generator and replicate that.

[Yetti]

What happened to the guy trying to get the Odyssey battery (AGM type battery) approved for Mooneys    I have an Odyssey in my motorcycle that has been going strong for good while

[ArtVandelay]

Some people put them on a household timer. If you think about what is coming out of your alternator or generator and replicate that.

But remember your alternator is not running 24/7, which is why people use a timer, turn it on for 20 minutes a day is all you would need anyway.

[rbridges]

I've had mine on a $25 lowes float charger for 3 years. Still cranks like new. It's a concord, not a gill.

[ArtVandelay]

I've had mine on a $25 lowes float charger for 3 years. Still cranks like new. It's a concord, not a gill.

That's the thing about batteries, when they go, it can be a quick death. My gill (unknown age) was fine on first cold start, same day, on a hot start after 1 hr flight it died.

[PTK]

Data point:

Installed a Concorde RG-35AXC in August 2009. Going on 6 years now.

Have it on a Batteryminder plug 'n run model 12248-AA-S5 around the clock and year round ever since when airplane is in the hangar.

It holds voltage like brand new. I may have seen it under 13 volts only a handful of times. This is the exception and usually when I have a drain on it. A radio or something. I've never seen it under 12.2 volts or so that I can remember. It's been 13.2 or better as a rule. Cranks the engine in 2 blades of less.

Edit: the 12248-AA-S5 was developed jointly by Cocorde and VDC specifically for Concirde AGM RG batteries.

http://www.concordebattery.com/accessories.php?id=62

[DXB]

I have no definite answer on this but researched a bit before buying my aircraft and battery model-specific Battery Minder- yes I was annoyed at price too.  But I couldn't find any clear indication that it was ok to charge using their cheaper car trickle charger models, or with the other much cheaper brand - Battery Tender.  Company claims the other chargers will overcharge an aircraft battery and shorten life - kinda the opposite of what you are trying to do.    There are multiple Battery Minder models that are specific to Gill vs Concorde and wet cell vs sealed versions.   I actually found the table on their website to help with selection confusing and called customer service to find the right one (i have the older style Gill wet cell).   Turns out if I get a sealed Concorde later (which is supposedly superior), my current charger won't harm it but tend to undercharge- this can be remedied by sending it back for them to reset for $75- also a bit annoying.  Using the Concorde charger on mine would supposedly trash it from overcharging however. 

 

If you decide to get one and have any doubt on the right model,  consider calling their customer service to clarify - they were decently helpful.

[Hank]

During my recent annual, I looked at my Concorde battery--it says "New 12/10" in marker on the top. Tests great! Cranks up quickly, spins prop fast enough to taxi with, if in the mood to save fuel.

It's never been plugged into anything, and the plane lived on the Ohio River until last April (4-1/2 years of cold winters, now back in God's country!).

Save yourself time, money and frustration, get a Concorde and skip the charger. There's a recent battery thread here, check the Vintage forum, late Jan / early Feb.

[HRM]

Before I go and spend $200+ for a "special airplane battery charger", I thought I'd come on here and ask whether I can use my car battery charger/tender instead. My Mooney has a Gill sealed battery in it at the moment (see attached picture). Now, i'm aware that if I google the question, the first website to pop up is batteryminder and of course, they don't want us charging our airplane batteries with anything but their expensive product. Call me crazy, but it sounds like nothing more than a sales pitch. I don't know how old the current battery is but with it being as cold as it is, I don't want to leave it sitting without a charger on it. 

 

I bought a BM aircraft charger and left it on a Concorde 24/7 under the foolish assumption that it would "maintain it." I am convinced that it was the reason that the battery died 3 months after the end of the warranty.

 

I have a new Concorde and a NOCO Genius that I will use only if it needs it. 

[Mooneymite]

Yes.

[DrBill]

From an engineering point of view I would not use a car charger to maintain my aircraft battery.  The car charger charges at approx 13.8v and the aircraft charger runs c 14.1.  That 0.3v difference is quite a bit in the long run.  Now if your battery is dead or real low and you want to give it a charge to get out of Dodge, then sure use the car charger to give it a shot of juice but not for a long term maintenance.. Use the aircraft model Battery MInder if you must. I don't use any maintaintenance at all.  I have a Concorde.

Bill

[N201MKTurbo]

Spend the $200 on avgas and just go fly the plane once in a while. You won't need a battery tender.

[N33GG]

I have had many planes and many batteries. I have had great luck (long dependable service) with Concorde, especially the sealed version, and pretty rotten luck with Gill. Don't know why, just my experience. I have owned and used several BatteryMinders for years.

Anyone her have any experience with the CTEK (sp?) chargers! I recently ran across some very experienced aircraft owners that swear by them.

[Andy95W]

Out of curiosity, what charging voltage does everyone see?

Concorde says for my temperature I should be charging at 14.1 - 14.3, but everything seems happier at 13.8-14.0.

[Jerry 5TJ]

There is a different peak voltage for CHARGE versus FLOAT and each varies with temperature.

 

A so-called intelligent charger should charge at a maximum current sized to the battery until reaching the desired charge voltage, then it should switch to a float mode and maintain that lower potential.   For a SLA at 20 degrees Celsius the peak charge V is about 14.4 and the float voltage is 13.2.  

 

Here's a good overview of the chemistry and charging mechanisms with specific reference to Concorde sealed recombinant batteries:

 

http://ecee.colorado.edu/~ecen4517/materials/Battery.pdf

 

You can skip to pages 24-26 for the summary if you hated Chemistry.

 

My subjective vote is for EITHER a good "intelligent" charger matched to the battery, or no charger.  

 

[mike20papa]

http://www.batterymart.com/p-cm6a-schauer-automatic-charger-desulfator.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=CM6A&utm_campaign=PLA&gclid=CIrWqPCU7MMCFQwKaQodhwYAhg

 

Schauer Battery Master Charger.  $45.00 

 

Has settings for AGM (absorbative glass mat) batteries, is microprocessor controlled and has a "rejuvenating" selection for desulfinating batteries.  I've been using one to keep my Concorde up to snuff when I'm down for annual.  The rejuvenating cycle actually brought a friends Concorde back to life - after it had been sitting for over a year.   Also..you CAN use it on your car!