Move up to a 201 from an E ??

[nels]

Got checked out in my E model and now have the itch to move into a 201. I like the simplicity of the E but think I might like the comfort of a 201? I would like to do some cross country flights from Cinci to Denver to visit the kids and probably some trips to Arizona on occasion. If I was 30 I guess I could just wait and see how things go, but I'm not 30. I think if I could find a good 201, maybe something that's been stored in a hangar, somewhat neglected, out of annual, maybe even a gear up and at a real good price I'd probably go for it. Anybody know of anything out there as described? I just see an awful lot of planes at various airports that are just not used at all. I guess the economy has just grounded a lot of aircraft or has it always been this way? My other option and probably the best one is to just cool it and enjoy what I have? But..the itch will probably go on.

[clh]

Ok, some questions.......   What are you expecting the 201 to do that your E does not?   If you want speed, it could be worthwhile to add a 201 windshield, cowl modification and have 80% of a 201 without the expense of changing planes.  If  you want electric gear and flaps, etc, then the 201 may be a good option.

 

With my E, I bought a solid airframe and engine and we upgraded the interior to equivalent to the 201. and added a few other things here and there and have pretty much the plane I want. (manual gear, simple systems, etc. (next upgrade is paint)   

 

If you are looking for a neglected plane, good luck. As others will chime in shortly, it will cost you dearly..  you are better off getting an well cared for plane than trying to bring one back from deferred maintenance.

[scottfromiowa]

HMMMMmmmmm? NOPE, I will sit back and watch the comments here. Popcorn, check. Leather chair, check. Carry on...

[Hank]

Check the Aircraft For Sale section here.

 

J's are faster, often have higher useful load, more backseat space and larger baggage areas than short bodies. E's are often as fast [because they are smaller & lighter with the same engine], and usually climb faster. J's are definitely newer and often have newer/fancier avionics & auto pilots, plus things like HSI, electric trim, etc., that are hard to find on the Vintage models.

 

In the meantime, enjoy flying the one you have. Changing planes can be expensive, depending on what is installed in the one you buy and its recent maintenance history. Don't buy a hangar queen that has not flown regularly the last several years.

[Immelman]

IMHO... it is not big enough of a jump to justify all the hassle of selling and buying. 10 knots. That's not a lot, really.

 

E to something with a turbo - 231, 252 and up -- now that is a big enough of a step up to be worthwhile, if your mission needed it.

 

My opinion, worth what you paid for it

[Alan Fox]

The Mission is the same for both planes.....If you already have the cowl closure , than the speed difference will be negligible , The real difference will be in the passenger leg room , and a more modern plane.......Most people with 231s are not happy with the performance and fuel burn below 10,000 feet , the logical upgrade would be to a Bravo....What a wonderful plane.....

[Bob_Belville]

I certainly would not swap my E for a neglected J. And I would not recommend that trade to a J.

 

An E, like mine, with a few 201 mods will perform like a J. Mine does 155-160k cruise with 900# useful.

 

Most Js you'll find for sale like most Es will have outdated panels. State of the art panels are expensive. (Fresh interiors are not.) A neglected plane is very likely to be a money pit that spends more time out of service than flying.

 

But, consider the source, I am admittedly prejudice toward what I know.

[ArtVandelay]

IMHO... it is not big enough of a jump to justify all the hassle of selling and buying. 10 knots. That's not a lot, really.

I'm going to jump in to defend my 201 :-)

If you are going to want an upgraded panel, the 201 has more panel space and a higher price ceiling, so you will recover more of your avionics upgrade investments.

Finally, when it's all said and done, the annual costs will be about the same across the non turbo models, and will dwarf the cost of the plane over time.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[scottfromiowa]

The question was one relating to Comfort...

[N601RX]

For comfort on the long cross countries you mentioned an autopilot would be the biggest improvement you would probably see.  If your E has a wing leveler you can add a Accutrac autopilot so it will follow a course. It will take some looking on your part to find one. 

[Bob_Belville]

I'm going to jump in to defend my 201 :-)

If you are going to want an upgraded panel, the 201 has more panel space...

An E need not have panel size envy:

[pinerunner]

I don't know first hand but I think the long body Mooney's gave extra space to the rear seat passengers while the front seat stayed the same; same cross section. I've found that it's rare for me to have rear seat passengers anyway and in fact I'm often alone. I'm short so that makes it a little easier on the rare rear seat passenger.  So my E is fine for me. Jaeger's Spatial interior panels are at the head of my list of upgrades adding a bit more roominess and making inspections much easier.

 

I didn't know I could climb faster than a J but that's a significant thing and might counterbalance a slightly higher cruise for the 201.

 

With respect to panel space I'm looking at getting a Sandel HSI down the road since it can pack a lot of information in a standard slot. My panel will have more than enough space.

 

No need for 201 envy.

 

 

[Bob_Belville]

The J is an all around improvement over the E, with the possible exception of the E's manual gear and hydraulic flaps if you are a minimalist like me. Many of the J's systems are modernized, refined, and improved in ways that would be impractical to modify. The gap can be substantially narrowed, though, through modification if you want to spend the money to do it. Fuel capacity can be increased, for instance, which is a very nice improvement in my eyes. And of course most of the speed mods are available. The E's V speeds and gross weight can not be increased, though, and most significantly its rear seat leg room and baggage compartment are what they are.

All that having been said, I wouldn't trade the E I knew for the J I didn't unless my back seat passengers were really complaining. And even then I would probably just turn the intercom over to "pilot isolate" and pretend like I didn't hear them. The E is just as comfortable as is the J in the pilot's seat and that is the only one that I ever sit in.

Jim

Agreed, but some advantages are not that helpful, e.g. unless your bladder is a lot younger than mine, being able to stay up for more than 5 hours is not feature I would use. Likewise gross and room are not much of a factor in the real world. 

[231LV]

Got checked out in my E model and now have the itch to move into a 201. I like the simplicity of the E but think I might like the comfort of a 201? I would like to do some cross country flights from Cinci to Denver to visit the kids and probably some trips to Arizona on occasion. If I was 30 I guess I could just wait and see how things go, but I'm not 30. I think if I could find a good 201, maybe something that's been stored in a hangar, somewhat neglected, out of annual, maybe even a gear up and at a real good price I'd probably go for it. Anybody know of anything out there as described? I just see an awful lot of planes at various airports that are just not used at all. I guess the economy has just grounded a lot of aircraft or has it always been this way? My other option and probably the best one is to just cool it and enjoy what I have? But..the itch will probably go on.

As a previous poster stated...there is not enough of a difference between the E and a J to go through the hassle of selling and buying....I went from a C to a K and that was well worth the hassle. I suggest hanging onto your E ( which is a great vintage plane) unless you what turbo which lifts you to another dimension!

[Mooney65E]

If comfort is what you're looking for, buy the neglected 201. Your wallet will be so flat you won't even know it's there.

[nels]

Well, I think you guys have succeeded in getting my finger off the trigger for the time being. To make my original post more clear, the 201 is a comfort thing for me. I do like stuff like an auto pilot, better layout of the instruments, maybe quieter, a little faster, better ride and just an overall newer airplane. I'm sure I will continue to be a vulnerable target for a super deal on a 201 but that is a good position to be in these days.

[KSMooniac]

I think the only real reason to make such a trade is if you frequently have back seat passengers, and/or you currently don't have an autopilot in the E and want one.  If you have the PC system and want to add the Brittain autopilot as N601RX indicated, that would be the most economical route to take but you need to scrounge and be patient.  If you want a more modern autopilot, it would probably make more financial sense to trade up to a plane that has one.  Otherwise, your E will do much the same mission with much lower capital cost.

[carusoam]

Consider jumping to something built in the 90's (or newer) to get the full speed demon + GPS, HSI and AP feel...

Along with a big note to pay monthly...

Once you have had the ownership experience, it is a small step to move into the plane you want.

The first step is to find out if ownership is for you. Count that as been there, done that... Call Jolie if you haven't got the T-shirt!

If you are moving towards retirement, Bob has demonstrated a viable alternative.

The choice is yours...

My thoughts,

-a-

[rbridges]

Well, I think you guys have succeeded in getting my finger off the trigger for the time being. To make my original post more clear, the 201 is a comfort thing for me. I do like stuff like an auto pilot, better layout of the instruments, maybe quieter, a little faster, better ride and just an overall newer airplane. I'm sure I will continue to be a vulnerable target for a super deal on a 201 but that is a good position to be in these days.

 

like others have mentioned, the extra space will help passengers, not you.  the extra 10 inches is split ahead of the firewall and behind the pilots seat.  not really any extra for the pilot.

 

you may get a little more range on a XC with the larger fuel tanks, but I'd have a hard time switching besides just wanting the newer cowl/windshield combo.

[mooniac15u]

There's a little more room for the pilot in the M20J but it probably only matters for those well over 6'.

In my M20D I didn't have even an inch to spare for my knees with the seat all the way back. In my M20J I can fly it one stop forward from the back. I'm 6'5".

[rbridges]

 

 

A point of clarification.  The mid length bodies (F, G, J, & K) have 10 inch longer fuselages than the short bodies (M20, A, B, C, & E).  5 of those inches are in the back seat and 5 are in the baggage compartment. 

 

thanks.  I thought 5 of it was ahead of the firewall.

[N601RX]

There is some extra length in front of the firewall, but its the longer spinner!

[scottfromiowa]

"Crickets" from original poster regarding definition of "Comfort"...

thanks.  I thought 5 of it was ahead of the firewall.

Someone needs Al's book on their X-Mas list

[scottfromiowa]

Come on Nels....Clarification for the gallery please.

[scottfromiowa]

You just need to modify your desire...How about "Man, if/when they dig up one of those Spits buried in Phillipines...I am getting me one!"

How about that?