Re-maufactured a Mooney like new.

[Rhumbline]

Without a doubt, a J.

 

For the bottom feeders, a C.

 

These two models are the quintessential Mooneys.

 

(Disclaimer:  I own a C)

 

Ditto.

[ArtVandelay]

Thanks Guys.

 

I have the answer now I think, it is going to be a 252 Mooney a K model, serial # 25-1000 and up, a Garrett Turbo engine TSIO 360 MB Continental Engine. Like new again with paint, new interiors, new avionics Garmin 500 and a Garmin 750 for GPS, also auto pilot what type unknown as yet.

Going for $325k.

I would extra fuel tankage, standard range is too short for this airplane.  If you are going to fly high, you want to be able to reach your destination without stopping

[carusoam]

James,

The F33 is gonna have to go, no?

R and Ms for sale....

http://www.controller.com/list/list.aspx?pcid=17527&etid=1&dlr=1&setype=1

For price comparison.

Add the Missile into the mix. Once a buyer gets past the non-factory built part of the discussion the IO550 is a nice power source.

If they are pro factory built, the competition would be older Ms and Rs.

What type of warranty would you be able to offer?

Best regards,

-a-

[rainman]

James, many 231/252/262 owners have already done these upgrades. They do it knowing they won't get that money back. Occasionally when they come to the market, the prices are in the $140-175K not in the $300K range. Heck, there is a sweet 1980 Rocket on Trade-A-Plane with a recent overhaul, new interior, and nice panel, for $137K. That's sort of your competition?

[Lood]

For me - a J.

Put in manual gear and flaps, to make it lighter and up the useful load and I'm sure you'll have a winner at a very competitive price - again.

[ArtVandelay]

For me - a J.

Put in manual gear and flaps, to make it lighter and up the useful load and I'm sure you'll have a winner at a very competitive price - again.

Manual gear and flaps, in 2014??? They weren't popular in 1974 let alone today. Anyone interested in a manual gear/flaps is not going to pay good money for a refurbished J, IMOHO.

[chrisk]

Manual gear and flaps, in 2014??? They weren't popular in 1974 let alone today. Anyone interested in a manual gear/flaps is not going to pay good money for a refurbished J, IMOHO.

Perhaps the maintenance perspective has changed since 1974. There is something to be said for a simple mechanical system that does not require a motor costing thousands to overhaul since they quite making it in the 1970s.  (Actually, I have no idea if the motors are still in production).  I certainly had a preference for manual gear and flaps when I was looking at "F"s.  If it was an option in a K, it would have been on my list of wants.   With that said, it's not realistic to put manual gear in a J or K.

[aaronk25]

My electric gear hasn't cost me a penny and that's in 900 hours.....

[ArtVandelay]

Don't forget you would be dropping your Vfe, Vle speeds with manual extension.

[Hondo]

Gandy,

 

Congratulations.  

 

Ronnie sold you one of the best Mooney Service Centers. Please keep it intact.

 

IMO, the J and K offer the most potential for refurbishment , but the market will definitely limit what can profitably be done,  Here is a 1989 J that I think AOPA refurbished.  All American Aircraft has it listed for 145K with a standard six pack and dual Garmin 430Ws.  http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20J-201/1989-MOONEY-M20J-201/1300041.htm?dlr=1&pcid=17527

 

Limit investment in new avionics like the GTN650/750 or the Garmin 500, but offer them to a prospective buyer at cost to seal the deal. Then work with an avionics shop like Pippen York in Fredericksburg.  In general, it is hard to get more than 80% of avionics investment back.

 

Here is a 1989 252 http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1989-MOONEY-M20K-252TSE/1315621.htm  It is listed for 185,900, which may be close to the limit. The Encore increases useful load, but how many people are willing to pay over 100K for that increase?

 

Encore  http://www.controller.com/listingsdetail/aircraft-for-sale/MOONEY-M20K-ENCORE/1997-MOONEY-M20K-ENCORE/1291033.htmAs 

 

The Continental TSIO-360-MB in 252 and SB in Encore are very expensive to overhaul.

 

Also, high quality Ovations are available for from 160K to 300K.

 

Good luck.

[mike_elliott]

Question: How would Mooney's new owners view a shop that remanufactures Mooneys and then competes for buyers?

Seems like the pool of potential Mooney buyers is small enough already.

Mooney International is not targeting the under half a megabuck crowd, so potentially there would not be much pushback. To "renew" a great F, J or K would go something like Mechanical 15K

Engine 25K-35K, Paint and prep 15K, Interior 10K, Modern Glass 60K. If the shop specialized in this, savings and economies of scale could crank them out for airframe plus 125K or so., pending on choices.

Think of buying a "New" J for just under 200K....I think there is a market as long as new 172's are selling for what they sell for.

[chrisk]

Mooney International is not targeting the under half a megabuck crowd, so potentially there would not be much pushback. To "renew" a great F, J or K would go something like Mechanical 15K

Engine 25K-35K, Paint and prep 15K, Interior 10K, Modern Glass 60K. If the shop specialized in this, savings and economies of scale could crank them out for airframe plus 125K or so., pending on choices.

Think of buying a "New" J for just under 200K....I think there is a market as long as new 172's are selling for what they sell for.

Don't forget to add 10K for a fuel tank strip and seal.

[N601RX]

I'm afraid the price will be higher than anyone will want to pay. The only way I could see this working this is to buy run out J and K's and purchase the rights to the Missile and Rocket conversion. This is a very nich market and these planes will compete with newer more expensive planes.

[Cruiser]

Just a point for comparison

 

I was at the ABS convention in Wichita, Kansas. did a tour of the Beechcraft factory and saw lots of G36s, Baron's and KingAirs. The comment was......"Business is booming",

Oh, by the way, a new G36 off the line is $770k.

In the corner covered with a black tarp was something new. They wouldn't tell us what but said it would fly higher and go faster than a SR22 G5.  

[Lood]

OK, I accept that reverting back to manual gear and flaps is rather far fetched. However, I stick with getting a better useful load - especially on the later J and probably K models and I would definitely pursue a more reliable fuel tank setup to improve the seeping/ leaking problems.

[ArtVandelay]

OK, I accept that reverting back to manual gear and flaps is rather far fetched. However, I stick with getting a better useful load - especially on the later J and probably K models and I would definitely pursue a more reliable fuel tank setup to improve the seeping/ leaking problems.

You can't change a zebra's stripes...which explains why a few here have gone to Bonanzas.

For 1-2 people, x-country, in this age of $6 gas, mooney's can't be beat.

 

The only way I can think of to save a little weight is a lighter battery (Lithium), new lighter avionics, replace fiberglass cowl with carbon fiber one. Might be able to save 200Lbs, you probably wishing for more

[DaV8or]

Welcome Mr. Gandy!

 

Congratulations on your new purchase. I wish you all the best in maintaining Dugosh's excellent reputation. My plane has entries in the log book for work performed back in the '60s. A lot of experience there, hopefully some will remain.

 

I too share skepticism about being able to sell $325,000 used M20ks. Even though you will likely try to make them "like new", they will always be used. To my knowledge, you can't zero time an airframe. GA is full of folks at every turn that will quickly say, "For that much money I could getta..." There are lots of really nice birds out there at a fraction of your proposed price and the used market would be your serious competition. I just don't think you would have a lot of sales in this market. Maybe someday if the economy takes off again, people are flush with cash and it becomes a seller's market again.

 

Having said that, I guess you could build one as a "prototype" try to market it and get response and if it all goes south and it was a waste of time, you can sell the Bonanza and have a really nice Mooney for yourself.

[Greg_D]

I'll tell you what would be very interesting.  Continental just announced a 300HP diesel aircraft engine. It's said that there will likely be a retrofit version too.  Imagine strapping on of those on an older Ovation.  You probably wouldn't need to do a whole lot interior wise on one of those birds.  An Aspen upgrade to the panel along with a new GPS to go with the new diesel engine would make this a completely different airplane.

[pirate]

Only one way to find out... Rebuild one and list it.

[KSMooniac]

Or go buy those two orphaned M20Ls that are for sale in FL and use them for a diesel transplant...

[bnicolette]

I may be in a minority here but does anybody else notice that when the price of a single exceeds 250k or so that they start talking Cirrus? I believe that once the price reaches around that point that most are going to opt for the perceived/real safety factor of the chute. I for one love Mooney's but at that entry price I'm headed for something that provides me and mine an out if the fan stops turning or I die in the pilot seat.

I say if you want to make some money or just see Mooney's start competing with the top single engine airplane in the market today, then find a way to get a chute on these suckers!!! The technology is here and it is real.

[aaronk25]

300hp continental diesel? Cool if it doesn't look like the P.O.S. They stuck under the cowl on the 182.......

When is http://www.deltahawkengines.com. Engines gonna certify one of there innovative diesels or better yet when is the FAA gonna help foster some innovation?

[triple8s]

When I think 250 k I am thinking twin, or a little more dough and a turboprop. Went to a beech fly in and those barons look mighty fine.