Oil Temp Question for EDM-930 Operators

[testwest]

Question for anyone running an EDM-930 (Primary)....

 

On the oil temp for our 1977 Mooney M20J, s/n 24-0042, the green arc (normal operating range) starts at 150 deg F and goes to 225 deg F, as per the original gauge...and the redline is 245 deg F. However, JPI has ours set up so anything below 150 deg F is also red, and we are getting red warnings for quite some time before the oil warms up.

 

With the old analog gauge, we would take off as long as the oil temp indication was off the peg, and if the prop cycling was OK. I am wondering if anyone else has seen this, or had their min oil temp handled a different way on a JPI EDM-930. Thanks!

[Marauder]

If the 930 is like my 830, the warning temps can be set through the setup menu. My oil temp warning is set for the POH temps and I too get a warning that oil temp is low when starting on most days.

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[Danb]

Chris by your picture I can see you finally got a good nights sleep

[Marauder]

Chris by your picture I can see you finally got a good nights sleep

Yes Dan, I'm back to almost normal.

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[fantom]

Yes Dan, I'm back to almost normal.

That will be an avatar we're ALL anxious to see!

[Bob_Belville]

Since the 930 is primary, several parameters are not user accessible where they might be in the 830. I think those alarm values had to be set at JPI. I'll be at the plane today and will go into the setup section but I'm pretty sure that's right. Of course the low temp warning is only informational, you can take off with OT in the red but maybe it would be easier on the engine life to let it warm up.

 

EZtrends Flight Summary only displays high limits. Mine displays 1650 EGT, 475 MAP, 100 OilP, 15 BAT, 245 OTemp. But there are lower limits in there that are not on the report.

[carusoam]

Logic prevails...

1) something is not correct....

It seams that JPI has added a red zone that does not exist on any other airplane that I have flown... (small amount of experience).

Since the 930 is used as a primary instrument, it is difficult to make changes.

2) it is proper to make the change....

Displaying a red flag when it should not, is essentially crying wolf. It is susceptible to being ignored when the situation is real.

3) next steps...

Time to call JPI directly on this one. I'm interested in how they handle the change.

You may want to contact Frank Lopez at JPI. Using email? jpi.frank@yahoo.com

EDM 930 (primary) $6,211.00

JP Instruments, Inc

3185-B Airway Ave.

Costa Mesa, CA 92626

1-800-345-4574 ext. 202

http://www.jpitech.com/

Best regards,

-a-

[jlunseth]

Are you sure there is not a "wolf" there?  Most aircraft do in fact have a minimum OT, although 150 seems a little high to me.  Mine is 100, and I do get a red flag below that.  I agree with Bob completely, since the 930 is primary there are a number of alerts that are not elective and cannot be reprogrammed except by JPI, and if that limit is in the POH they won't change it. 

 

There are several places in my POH where minimum OT is discussed, it is a turbocharged 231 and oil is used to lubricate the very rapidly spinning turbo bearings, so low oil temp. would be a problem.  Less of a problem in an NA aircraft, but there would still be issues with asking the engine to produce full power with low oil temps.

[Bob_Belville]

From this pic it appears my low limit for Oil temp is set @ 100F. I'm pretty sure you'll have to have it sent back to JPI to change though it is possible they'll allow your avionics shop into those parameters on the QT.

 

(LOP advocates might like the rest of the screen. Since my engine rebuild cyl #4 runs a little cooler than the rest. That's true ROP as well.)

[Bob - S50]

I downloaded and looked at the 930 primary pilot guide and installation manual.  Oil temp limits are one of many that the pilot cannot program.  They are set by JPI.  Supposedly JPI sets them to POH limits.  One manual says the oil temp low limit default value is 90F.  Obviously JPI must have reset it.  On my '78J, the only red radial is at 245F with a green arc of 175-245F.  I do not know where they came up with 150F.  We have an 830 and have the low alarm set to 90F.  We do not want to take off until oil temp is over 90F.

 

I think it is time to call JPI and ask them where they came up with the numbers and unless they have a good reason for setting them the way they did, tell them you want them changed.  Before you call, check all the other alarm limits and know which others you want changed, what you want them changed to, and why.  On the 830, the default value for DIFF is 500F, which is totally useless.  We changed it to 150F for example.  A CHT of 475F is way out of line too even though the manual says it is acceptable.  We have ours set to 400F.

 

Good luck,

 

Bob

[testwest]

Wow, 9 replies already, is this a great group or what?

 

The green arc and red line limits in my original post are directly from the M20J POH, limitations section, for my serial number. It is manual number 1220, revision G, original issue 9-27-76, revision date 3-7-84.

 

I did look through the POH for any recommendations for minimum oil temperature for takeoff (which would not be mandatory for a primary instrument, unlike the markings in the limitations section of the POH, which are required for STC).....and did not find any.

 

Guess my next step is to write JPI and ask them to reprogram the key so as to remove this red lower limit. Hopefully I can convince them it is a mistake and not get charged for a key reprogram .

 

Again, thanks for the pictures and the replies. Mooneyspace rocks.

[testwest]

Oh, and I see Bob - S50 is near me in Puget Sound. Thanks again for the reply. Need a BFR? It's on me, free.

[jlunseth]

I do know that some of the JPI dealers are able to program the key.  Willmar has that ability.  The issue you are dealing with is that the setting of the limits for critical engine parameters ties into the Supplemental Type Certification of the JPI for the particular aircraft.  If there is a lower limit for your aircraft, or if there was a lower limit marked on the factory gauge, then they are not going to be able to remove it or change it, because that would nullify the certification.  150 seems to high to me though, as I mentioned.  The lower limit is usually around 100 dF.

 

I have a similar issue on my aircraft.  In the factory configuration, there is a redline for Compressor Discharge Temp. of 280 dF.  However, when an aftermarket intercooler is added, the CDT becomes irrelevant because the intercooler cools the induction air down by as much as 100 degrees.  However, since the aircraft was certified with a CDT redline, that must go in the JPI.  It is irrelevant, but it must still go into the JPI so the aircraft remains in compliance with its original type certificate.

[Bob_Belville]

I was at the plane this afternoon and pulled up the page displaying EDM Limits. 

 

Some of the limits are designated "As Primary Value". These would be values which JPI had to conform to Mooney specified values. Unless an error has been made these could not be legally change. IMO.

 

Other limits are more negotiable and could be changed. As mentioned above, the SOP is for the unit to go back to JPI though it seems they permit avionics shops to make some changes on a case by case basis. (We had an error in the data discovered just before I was to pick up the plane. The shop thought the unit had to go to JPI but they were able to get permission and procedure to correct the error.)

 

For my '66E The "As Primary Values" are:

RPM: High limit = 2700

CHT: HL = 475  

Oil Temp: HL = 245

Oil Press: HL = 100. LL = 25

Fuel Press: HL = 30. LL = 14.0

Main Tank: LL = 0.0

 

Other limits do not include the "As Primary Value" label

EGT: HL = 1650

Oil Temp: LL = 100

Volts: HL = 15.0, LL = 12.0

AMP: HL = 50.0, LL = -2.0

Fuel Flow: LL = 0.0

CLD: HL = 60.0

DIF: HL = 500

Fuel Rem: LL = 10.0

Endurance: LL = 45

 

[jackn]

 

Give JPI a call. This is how I was able to set up mine, on my own.

 

 

[testwest]

Ok Bob B and Jack, thanks!!!!

 

I "think" you get to the limits page by powering on with buttons one and two pushed. That Oil Temp low limit I have is a problem, it should be removed and the green arc remains at 150 deg F as the bottom of the normal operating range. Will call JPI, but I bet I can fix it myself. I am reasonable with the menu structure and button-nav that JPI uses.....will let you know!!

[Bob_Belville]

I do not think you will be able to get to a place to change Limits without some help from JPI. Holding the 1st 2 buttons will bring up the menu and certain values can be changed but not the limits. Holding the 2nd and 3rd buttons will bring up several pages, read only, the first page is Tach & Hobbs, I think the 3rd page is the limits which is where I copied the values above. There's no doubt a way to get into the "administrators" menu but I do not have it. It's likely a keep out of the hands of small children or the Feds will confiscate your weapons matter.

[Bob - S50]

Oh, and I see Bob - S50 is near me in Puget Sound. Thanks again for the reply. Need a BFR? It's on me, free.

Thanks for the offer but I'm good for now.  I'll get two more from Delta before I retire and one of my partners is a CFI.

 

Good luck with your JPI.

 

Bob

[jackn]

One other thing; important! Once the 930 is set to your liking, Back-it-Up! When my first unit failed, JPI sent a new one free, it would have been a hassle to redo all my settings.