BMI

[bonal]

So. It looks like the FAA is going forward with its BMI check on our medical exams. I was wondering how the Mooney space folks are looking. Mine is 31.6 They are setting the bar at 40 but word is it will go down to 30 at some point. I need to lose some weight any way now I have a real incentive.

Where are you?

[bumper]

Twenty two point three . . . . they're not after me 

 

That said, I strongly disagree with the FAA for moving forward without the normal comment period etc.

 

bumper

[stevesm20b]

I think this whole BMI thing is wrong. Seems like the FAA is just making up more rules an regulations just to have more rules and regulations. FAA- "Were not happy unless your not happy" is so true!

[mooniac15u]

Last I heard this was on hold (http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2013/December/20/FAA-puts-sleep-apnea-policy-on-hold.aspx). Was there a more recent change?

[scottfromiowa]

Why not just take fat people to the furnaces or stick a cattle prod up their rectum...cause everyone knows what is wrong with this country is fat pilots...

[co2bruce]

What do you ink the reaction would be if this was applied to drivers licenses . Pilots are an easy target because we are a small group. They will take our freedoms away piece by piece as they see the opportunity. We are living in sad times. I'm in shape but,please do not stick a cattle prod up my rectum .......... Scott! (LOL)

[scottfromiowa]

I just completed a health questionaire for work on line right before reading the post. My company is fulling on board with running we employees through hoops to "earn" a better rate on our health insurance...which is family vs. individual thanks to government giving us the "pleasure" of providing insurance coverage for our adult "children" until they are 26...AWESOME.

[Mooneymite]

I have a little different view of this issue.  I fly professionally with a fellow who is also a friend.  This guy's mother just passed from a stroke; his sister had a stroke six months earlier and my friend is always telling me, "I have to lose some weight".

 

However, he doesn't.  He just can't bring himself to do what he needs to do.

 

I am very afraid that one morning, he's not going to be there for pickup and he'll be dead in his hotel room.

 

If the FAA threatens him with losing his certificate he will lose weight and maybe live an extra 30 years.  If that's what it takes, bring it on!

[Seth]

26.6

 

"I really want to lose three pounds."

 

Honestly, 155 has been a good weight for me in the past - I'm at 165 right now - 10 pounds will bring my BMI back down to 25.0.  154, and I'm considered "healthy" at a BMI of 24.9.

 

I don't love the BMI test because all body types are "different" but it does seem to be generally accurate - generally - lots of exceptions (old age, body builders, etc . . .)

 

I don't however see why it should be added to a third class medical.

 

-Seth

[201er]

I think Mooneyism is a far better motivator to lose weight than the FAA. Being able to carry more stuff or just to make it through the door...

[aviatoreb]

Allometric scaling is the description of how of body size and shape and function scale with respect to each other.

 

Ever hear the joke of the physicist who says "assume a spherical cow".  (The joke being about an oversimplification of a problem typical when you need to make a model).

 

Such a cow would scale as volume = 4/3 pi r^3 where volume would scale proportionally with mass closely.  

 

As typset by wiki:  

 

 

   

 ^†

 

That is the scaling exponent is 2 instead of 3 for the spherical cow.  I have a hard time believing this was well established across the wide range of people sizes that 2 is a good exponent.  I am very incredulous.

 

If it is not so good, you would expect it to do poorly in many segments of the population - as Seth said old, muscular, but tall, short, etc.  But not vastly wrong I would suspect.  

 

By the way Arnold Schwartzenneger used to be 250 in competition - ripped muscles - at 6'2'' so BMI of 32.1  I suppose if he flew the FAA could call him fat.

 

I am 6'4''.  Lately in the summer I am ~210 (BMI 25.6) and in the winter 215 to 220.  My weight has been very stable like this, and seasonally periodic for at least 15 years.  I am not just fatter in the winter - but I am a little fatter in the winter.  Sure I am not a lean mean machine.  But also I XC ski in the winter vs biking in the summer and that makes me heaver on top.  I will do a XC ski race tomorrow in fact - actually 2 races - a 10k classic race and then later a 5k skate race.  

 

I am really not so worried about my weight - I am at 26.5 BMI right now, and my resting HR as of last week was 45 to 48 - typical. And generally exceedingly low blood pressure.  I still compete well on the bike in the summer, and I can ride a ten mile TT in 21:xx with which I win more often than not.  But according to the BMI scale - I am fat.

 

Sure I am not the lean mean machine I was in my mid twenties.  When I was the leanest in my life was in my mid twenties, I was 195lbs (still 6'4'') so BMI 23.7 and I was pretty darned ripped at that weight since I was bike racing A LOT and I was carrying around a lot of leg muscles - and my resting HR used to be ~32 back then and I used to do ok at nationals - sometimes pretty well.

 

Just rambling but really - I think the FAA should go tell Arnold that he's fat.

[flyboy0681]

Mine is 22.3

 

Are you saying that if this passes muster that overweight applicant's can fail their medical?

[aviatoreb]

Oh - and here is a fun allometric scale graph - just averaged data - showing speed vs mass of a wide range of animals from bugs to birds, and then machines - including from the Bonanza up to the 747.

 

Of course - never mind the scatter.  (in some sense I laugh whenever I see a rough line sent through lots of data on a log log scale with lots of scatter - on a log log scale with lots of scatter, your eye can convince you that a line will fit anything).

[carusoam]

Or buy more HP to cover the ill effects of BMI. There's an STC for that.

Maybe I missed something....

Best regards,

-a-

[Danb]

It seems as though the Faa promotes porr health keeping with all this crap, last year we had 2 situations with friends of mine ( neither fat ) one seemed at risk for a heart problem since his primary doc, told him he shoul get to a heart doc. He had an erratic heart beat, being 2 weeks away from his 3rd class physical he opted to wait until after his physical to go to heart doc, left my hanger and promptly went home and had a stroke...if he wasn't waiting due to the faa coming up he would have gone to heart doc, now he is out of flying, another friend last summer also did not go to specialist since he did not want it on his record and he had a stroke...allot us are in our 60's... My weight is 160 and I'm 5'8". Have no clue what my mbi is but maybe it's out of range...what a stupid idea. My waist is 32" and I'm probably at risk since being 65 yrs old things shift. Maybe they should just tell us we can't fly after age. 60. Morons

[Danb]

Figured out. 25.5

[Cruiser]

I have a little different view of this issue.  I fly professionally with a fellow who is also a friend.  This guy's mother just passed from a stroke; his sister had a stroke six months earlier and my friend is always telling me, "I have to lose some weight".

 

However, he doesn't.  He just can't bring himself to do what he needs to do.

 

I am very afraid that one morning, he's not going to be there for pickup and he'll be dead in his hotel room.

 

If the FAA threatens him with losing his certificate he will lose weight and maybe live an extra 30 years.  If that's what it takes, bring it on!

Or not. Do you really think fat people are fat because they want to be? There are lots of reasons, but to suggest that he just needs the right incentive is rather naive. It is entirely possible this man will loose his job because of a needless rule that has no basis in fact and cannot be supported with any legitimate evidence.

[aviatoreb]

It seems as though the Faa promotes porr health keeping with all this crap, last year we had 2 situations with friends of mine ( neither fat ) one seemed at risk for a heart problem since his primary doc, told him he shoul get to a heart doc. He had an erratic heart beat, being 2 weeks away from his 3rd class physical he opted to wait until after his physical to go to heart doc, left my hanger and promptly went home and had a stroke...if he wasn't waiting due to the faa coming up he would have gone to heart doc, now he is out of flying, another friend last summer also did not go to specialist since he did not want it on his record and he had a stroke...allot us are in our 60's... My weight is 160 and I'm 5'8". Have no clue what my mbi is but maybe it's out of range...what a stupid idea. My waist is 32" and I'm probably at risk since being 65 yrs old things shift. Maybe they should just tell us we can't fly after age. 60. Morons

 

That is the greatest argument of why the whole third class medical - or any FAA medical for that matter - is just wrong.  It anti-promotes public health.  It could be argued that if the benefit outweighed the bad then maybe - maybe the intrusive government intervention would mean something - but from so many sources not just this sleep apnea thing, but the whole darned medical to-fly system is just bureaucratic junk.

 

So ironic just when congress is putting forward a movement to have a no-medical route to fly many ga planes, the FAA is pushing a sleep apnea gobble-dee-goop rule.  Only problem with the congressional bill is that it does not go far enough.  Eliminate medicals entirely, even for ATP pilot airline operations.

 

The congressional rule - as much as I like the idea of it - being for VFR flight only below 14500 (but yes in a selection of singles and twins up to six seats that essentially covers most of the owner-pilot piston fleet), then will inadvertently start promoting VFR into IMC I bet.  But those accidents won't be considered medical incidents.

[EDNR-Cruiser]

I have a little different view of this issue.  I fly professionally with a fellow who is also a friend.  This guy's mother just passed from a stroke; his sister had a stroke six months earlier and my friend is always telling me, "I have to lose some weight".

If the FAA threatens him with losing his certificate he will lose weight and maybe live an extra 30 years.  If that's what it takes, bring it on!

That MAY be because of his BMI and given his family background I'd also be a little concerned, I have to admit! But what the heck does it have to do with BMI??

My health is still okay at my age of 52 with a BMI of 34 although I am no longer doing the Decathlon as I did at the age of 24 with a BMI of 23... - but I have no problem to pull my or heavier airplanes out of the hangar without help or run an hour at a pace...  BMI is surely an indicator but can never be a go/no go criteria for sure. Except for some digital people out there: "switch brain cell on / off"...

[carusoam]

I haven't seen a third class medical stop a heart attack from occurring. And the two strokes above sound like they were covered by a class III as well...

What is the point of the Class III to begin with?

Just wondering... And Best regards,

-a-

[Mooneymite]

Or not. Do you really think fat people are fat because they want to be? There are lots of reasons, but to suggest that he just needs the right incentive is rather naive. It is entirely possible this man will loose his job because of a needless rule that has no basis in fact and cannot be supported with any legitimate evidence.

 

In my friend's case, it is a matter of incentive.  After his sister had a stroke, she lost 80 pounds and is now off her blood pressure medicine and she no longer has to regulate her diabetes with medication.  If genetics are involved, I bet he could do the very same thing.  I'd very much like to see my buddy follow her example!

 

One other difference is we're talking about a first class physical, not a third class.

[Sabremech]

The medical is all about the perception of "safety" for the non flying public. It's used far to often as a way to justify actions that defy common sense.

David

[scottfromiowa]

As soon as the fat #@$% driving next to me every day needs a physical for his license then...

Not really, the whole idea of legislating health in the past would have been considered an invasion of privacy and un-American. Now it's just another day in the US of A.

[M20F-1968]

As physicians we are taught to practice "evidence based medicine" and make decisions and treat patients in keeping with validated studies.  Is the FAA saying that if a pilot has a high BMI he/she may also have sleep apnea and suffer from falling asleep at the controls, or are they saying that obesity is a risk factor for stroke or are they suggesting some other medical problem?  I have not heard what sudden incapacitating event from which  they are try to protect us.  Without that, how can we make evidence based decisions?

 

John Breda

[TWinter]

As a health club owner and former competitive powerlifter I think the BMI is ridiculous . In my opinion it falls along the lines of the old height and weight chart doctors used in the 60s. People are bigger now. I see it everyday in my health club. I was a very competitive powerlifter in the 80s and 90s. I enjoyed the sport and worked hard at it. Actually, I was nationally ranked in the 220 and 242 pound classes for several years and competed all over the place. I kept my build in proportion to strength to keep in the two weight classes. I kept my cardio up with regular bicycle and stationary bike riding at the gym. Meals were all fitness and health minded. With all that being said, I kept regular physicals as well. I don't ever recall the doc putting me in the "Obese Class" as the BMI chart shows. As a police officer I still had to be able to catch the bad guys on foot once in a while.

 

Now, I'll admit I'm not in my 20/30s any longer, but I still try to give the young guys a good run for the money in the gym and remind them who owns the club..lol,    At 50 yrs old now I'm not doing near the numbers I lifted in the past, but still benching in the 400s, squatting 600s and deadlifting 600s. I weigh 250 lbs and I'm 5'10". I run, ride the bike or do some form of cardio three times a week along with my regular power routine.               

 

According to the BMI I'm currently 35.9  - Severe Obesity 

 

As a health club owner, certified health instructor, with fitness certifications galore, and a graduate of the Cooper School of Aerobic Fitness in Dallas, TX I say there is no realistic way to get a more in depth fitness valuations beyond what they do now without spending far more than the $125 we pay now.  BMI charts are not the answer.

 

I would have to weigh 210 lb to make be a 30 on the BMI scale....Not going to happen. Everyone is built differently.  

 

Just another hurdle the FAA is trying to put in place to dwindle the GA population. If BMI testing was to pass I guess there is always "Sport Pilot" for us guys considered fit, but "Obese" at the same time.