Realistic allowance for maintenance cost on 68 M20C

[whiskytango]

I have owned my 68 M20C for 2 years now.  I fly it about 400 hours per year, mostly for business up and down the east coast.  My first annual cost $10,000.  Some of that was deferred maintenance repairs from the prior owner.  The second annual was also about $10,000.  There were mainly a lot of small squawks but they quickly added up.  There were also repairs between the annual.  This works out to about $25 per flight hour for annual-related maintenance and repair.  Is this a realistic expectation for a Mooney that is this old and that gets flown this many hours?

[BigTex]

My last annual on my 65 C model was around ~$2300 with just a couple of minor squawks. But I don't fly 400/yr either. I would think that after you work through all of the deferred maintenance squawks, your annuals will come way down.

[Marauder]

400 hours is a lot of hours in a year and it will certainly run up your routine maintenance bills. I am surprised by your second annual cost. I can understand the first $10k, but it should have come down a bit. What did you have done at the second annual?

[flight2000]

From my experience, that sounds about right.  I haven't been hit with a $10K annual yet, my highest so far has been $3.6K.  Most of that one was tied up in replacing the alternator (again) and buying all new hoses for the plane.  Other than that, I've had pretty good luck, but I wasn't flying 400 hours a year either...    I was on pace to clip 150 hours the first year I had it, then the military got involved and...well I'm in Germany now...painful trade but wouldn't give up the three years of travel my kids are experiencing.  These jobs are getting harder to come by with the downsizing in Europe.

 

Brian

[1964-M20E]

I had a 64 E models for 2 years flew it about 200 hours.  My first owner assisted annual was about $8k +/- but that was new exhaust, dog house, and assortment of other parts.  The second annual was much less expensive since we did so much on the first time.  Unless you are doing a lot of other things during the annual I do not see where the second one was as expensive as the first one assuming you used the same mechanic.  First annuals are typically expensive since you are taking care of a number of deferred maintenance items.

 

There is no reason why these planes cannot be flown regularly and if anything that is better for them rather than sitting for one or more months at a time.

 

My current 67F has been flown regularly since I bought it in October close to 100 hours.  The first annual on this one was not too bad about $3k.   However, we did identify some items to be done throughout the year and at the next annual or possibly after that.  I’m getting ready to change the fuel servo which is one of the items we identified as needing to be changed before the next annual.

 

If you are looking to save costs look up the savvy aviator and read his articles.  They are very good and informative.  The other way is to get involved in the maintenance of YOUR aircraft.  Even if the mechanic will not let you in the shop to work on your plane if he is on the same field there is plenty you can do before you bring it to him for the annual.  I regularly spend 6 to 8 hours opening the plane up for the inspection basically saving the I would pay the MX to open it up and the same for lubrication, cleaning and close up.  Bring the plane over to him cleaned and lubricated and all he has to do is inspect.

[Sabremech]

I've had my 66C model now for 3 years and my average cost is less than $500. That's strictly items that I may address at annual and does not include routine maint during the year. I don't fly anywhere near 400 hours, am an A&P/IA, and do all of my own maint.

 I seriously would have to consider whether I woud want to own an airplane at $10K a year maint cost.

 David

[Gilt]

Nope! I have a 63C ....$1200-$1500 a year. I only fly about 75 hrs a year, maybe think about a new MX shop.

[Bob_Belville]

I just came out of annual with my '66E. $1481 included new ELT battery, brakes, overhaul of oil cooler and Vernatherm, and oil filter. It is also net of credit at his shop rate for my 4.5 hours spent removing/replacing cowl and one piece fg belly panel. I did have to replace the alternator mid year @ $1437 if your idea of annual includes all maintenance. But my plane was in the avionics shop for almost 3 months this past year so I only flew 55 hours.  

[carusoam]

You have to share what else you got with that. Paint and resealing the fuel tanks or engine overhaul? A new radio?

This would be expected if you paid less than $20k for the plain...

Best regards,

-a-

[whiskytango]

400 hours is a lot of hours in a year and it will certainly run up your routine maintenance bills. I am surprised by your second annual cost. I can understand the first $10k, but it should have come down a bit. What did you have done at the second annual?

There were 35 items on the squawk list.  Most were worn parts (bearings, seals, rod ends, etc).  The big ticket items were mag replacements ($2,900), nose gear turn radius stop tube - bent courtesy of some careless ramp personnel ($1,200) and prop hub reseal / eddy current test per AD ($1,500).

[Hector]

I've only had my 67C for one year and close to 100 hours, but I purchased it from a good friend and A&P who kept it in great shape and spent 6 months refurbishing everything when he purchased it. For my first annual I hired another A&P who maintains other Mooneys in my home field. He agreed to do an owner assisted annual in which i did almost everything. I followed the Mooney annual checklist but also removed all the seats and interior paneling so as to provide for close inspection of the tube frame. Total cost in parts was around $450 including corrosion x, and the A&P charged me $800 to look over all I had done. The only significant finding was a leaking brake cylinder but i put in a LOT of hours. At a typical A&P rate it probably would have been over $5k, but I did a lot of stuff above and beyond what is required. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[jetdriven]

If you went over it so well the first year and spent 10K, why did the second one cost so much? The annual inspection and the labor to open and close the aircraft is around 26 hours, or 2k-2500$.  Plus an oil change, a tire or two, and brake linings.

[DrBill]

I fly my E about 100/year.  The first annual was $1400, the second was $2300 (new muffler(600) , airlenon control rod ($300), and ram air boot. Both included some minor squaks. I follow with detail what he does and what he charges for.

BILL

[Bob_Belville]

If you went over it so well the first year and spent 10K, why did the second one cost so much? The annual inspection and the labor to open and close the aircraft is around 26 hours, or 2k-2500$.  Plus an oil change, a tire or two, and brake linings.

Flat rate for my E is 23 hours of which I was credited 4.5 for panel removal/replace.

 

And there's 400 hours and there's 400 hours. When I was flying 250+ hours a year I doubt I had more than 100 t/o and landings... "Highway Miles." 

[lahso]

Seems high to me. For the past seven years, my annuals are between $3-5,000 at my local MSC.

[MARZ]

Timely - just got my bill for the annual - oil and filter, new air filter, a log book, 2 year xponder test, a new egt probe (squawk) 1300 and change.  I didn't have the ability to help this year, Last years was about 600 IIRC. 

 

20,000 in two years - wow - even if I extrapolated my 100 per year and multiplied worst case I only get to 10,500 - I'd be shopping mechanics......

[Mooney65E]

$10K two years in a row for an annual?? Please let us know who your mechanic is so we can all steer clear!

[Sabremech]

This seems to be more of a shop scenario than an independent mechanic. Maybe the airplane required that much maintenance. Would be really hard to tell unless Whiskytango cared to share more in detail.

 David

[flight2000]

I have owned my 68 M20C for 2 years now.  I fly it about 400 hours per year, mostly for business up and down the east coast.  My first annual cost $10,000.  Some of that was deferred maintenance repairs from the prior owner.  The second annual was also about $10,000.  There were mainly a lot of small squawks but they quickly added up.  There were also repairs between the annual.  This works out to about $25 per flight hour for annual-related maintenance and repair.  Is this a realistic expectation for a Mooney that is this old and that gets flown this many hours?

 

 

There were 35 items on the squawk list.  Most were worn parts (bearings, seals, rod ends, etc).  The big ticket items were mag replacements ($2,900), nose gear turn radius stop tube - bent courtesy of some careless ramp personnel ($1,200) and prop hub reseal / eddy current test per AD ($1,500).

 

He already spelled out what the first and second annual dealt with.  Come on guys, read the entire post...

 

Don't think he has a bad shop or mechanic, just bad luck on things that hit their replacement cycle.  It happens.... I developed a spreadsheet to track all of the major end items by hour and calendar months since last overhaul or replacement.  While not an exact science, it helps give a holistic look at where those major end items are in their life cycle. 

 

Brian

[jetdriven]

I am curious why the magnetos cost 2900$. New Slicks are 700-800$ each, and the inspections are around 450-500$ each.  It also takes about 3 hours labor to R&R them and set the timing.

[John Pleisse]

$2900 is typical for a whole new Bendix or Laser system including harness.

[BigTex]

I checked into swapping out my Bendix mags for new Slicks and the cost for everything was around $2900... I opted to have the Bendix mag IRAN'd for $650 each. So realistically you should be looking at maybe $1600. I'd be interested in knowing what was done with the mags?

[AmigOne]

He already spelled out what the first and second annual dealt with.  Come on guys, read the entire post...

 

Brian

I do not think that what he described already justified the cost unless the airplane was in such poor condition than the money spent caught up with previous neglect and that it was reflected in the purchase price. I am also surprise by the high cost of the Eddy current test

I also have a 68C which I fly about 100-125 hrs/year and I am astounded by $20K in maintenance in two consecutive annuals which is half the purchase cost of my beautiful airplane !!!. I have had 3 annuals since I bought it and they were all below $1500. And yes there was maintenance in between annuals but in aggregate they amounted to less than $8K. The airplane had been inactive for some time due to illness of the owner, it was using some oil and the prop seal was leaking. After a while I made the decision to pull out 2 cylinders and have them overhauled , a good move (oil consumption now 9hrs/qt). Also since the oil leak from the prop, which I had attributed to inactivity, did not stop I decided to have it overhauled, the shop found a serviceable A/D free hub (cost $2700 hub + o/h East Coast Propellers). No more Eddy current bs for me.

Having said this it would seem to me that the high time flown yearly must have had a detrimental effect in an airplane which was not in great condition to begin with, on the other hand being used for business I want to think that some or all of these expenses can be written off against the business.

[flight2000]

Also since the oil leak from the prop, which I had attributed to inactivity, did not stop I decided to have it overhauled, the shop found a serviceable A/D free hub (cost $2700 hub + o/h East Coast Propellers). No more Eddy current bs for me.

 

Had the exact same thing happen to me, but I decided to just go with a new Top Prop from Hartzell.  In the end, it cost about the same as what you paid for the new hub and o/h.  I sold the old one to a guy building an RV for just under $5K since it was only 300 hours since it's last overhaul and had zero wear on the prop. 

 

Without seeing a full list of the deferred maintenance, I still have no reason to doubt the figures.  The high cost of the eddy inspection included an o/h, at least that's how I read it.

 

Brian

[M20F-1968]

Somewhat on the same topic - Does anyone have recommendations for a mechanic for maintenance and/or annuals in the Boston area.  I know of the MSC in NJ and at Freeway, but am asking if there are any of you who have had good experiences with knowledgeable/capable Mooney mechanics in Massachusetts?  There is also a mechanic in Moultonboro, NH who used to work for/with Lopresti.  Any pireps?

John Breda