Leaderboard

I will miss the Mooney speed and efficiency. I look forward to seeing my Mooney friends at OSH and other venues. My mission is the same, family trips and Pilots n Paws. The plan is to go slower and burn more dinosaurs doing just that. Sean

I received awesome news today -- GOT MY 3RD CLASS MEDICAL! After fighting to overcome heart failure, pace maker install, and diabetes, I was approved today! That took almost 2 years but it’s finally done... Just goes to show you can overcome obstacles with perseverance and hard work... I’m beyond excited... -Don

Small update: New Vernatherm arrived. I tested it against the old one...here are the numbers using my candy thermometer- Expansion from room temp to 150 deg F. Expansion from 150 - 185 degrees F Old Vernatherm: 0.007“ 0.140” New Vernatherm: 0.046”. 0.250” At the 150-185F expansion, the difference between them is 0.110”, which is Approximately the thickness of two dimes. I cannot accurately measure for comparison the length of the each valve from the gasket surface end to the tip of the valve that seats against the engine oil pressure orifice, as the new valve has a different taper ( I couldn’t tell exactly where the valve seats on the taper against the engine without coating it with blue dye and screwing it in- I’m not at the hangar). So, not very scientific or precise here, but interesting to note that the new valve does move sooner, and does move farther than the old valve. I would like to know the exact distance between the gasket surface of the engine and the oil galley orifice where the valve seats, and I would like to know the length of each valve from the gasket surface to the area of the taper where it seats. Then I’d like to know the seating pressure at various temps- that would give me some real data.... but I’m way too busy and short on time to work on that- I just want to go fly! (The new vernatherm is the one on the left - the more silver one with the pinched nut) One other thing- the old valve tip feels ratchety when pushing the spring down. The new valve tip moves very smoothly against the spring Hopefully it will go in Saturday, and we’ll see if it amounts to a hill of beans.

Freedom to choose what you want to drive. Where and when? Priceless

Tesla's of today don't have to be for everyone. But for what they are designed to do, they are very nice. It's pretty common to have two cars in most families. We have three cars and two drivers. Having a Tesla or another electric car as one of them could be quite convenient. I have one on order, but might or might not take delivery. I'm still waiting to see what the economy does in the next 6 months and what happens with my employment. Not all my cars excel at the same tasks. This last weekend driving over Imogene pass in SW Colorado, the BMW M3 would have been useless, but the 4Runner was perfect. Getting my wife back and forth to work 7 miles each way, summer and winter in Denver, the Tesla Model Y sounds like a perfect solution to me. Of course she could do it in a much cheaper car... but come on... this is a forum full of people who own private airplanes... And from friends of mine who own Tesla's, once you have one, you start using it more and more for more types of travel and next thing you know the car with the ICE under the hood is up for sale. The day Amazon decides it's cheaper to use electric automated trucks, the trucking industry as we know it will be gone. And they are working that direction very quickly with unlimited funds at their disposal. One of my customers is AAA. Somedays I think they're still trying to figure out why no one is stopping by for the little TripTix books they put together. Think of Kodak, Xerox, TomTom and Magellan. And now technology is able to replicate its self and improve its self. So hang on, the rocket has been lit, and there's no un-lighting it.

I’d of taken that risk if I saw it in time....

I just finished listening to a webinar put on by Aviation Week entitled, "Electrification: Dead End or the Future of Aviation?" Obviously it was slanted toward the "Future of Aviation" point of view. It brought up several valid points of where we are going … by 2035 at the earliest. 1. Is the future one source or more likely a mix of hydrogen, electric, hybrid, synthetic fuel, etc. 2. Currently (without subsidies) electric is 3-4X more expensive than current fossil fuels. 3. The progress of biofuels has been much slower than anticipated. 4. Synthetic fuels are being worked on, but they are only in the early stages. 5. Hydrogen has storage and airframe integration issues, but these issues are only engineering issues (LOL … from an engineer). 6. It was noted that this movement is going to make airplane aerodynamic designs more efficient, which is where most of the gain will come from. These changes can also be accomplished on current airplanes. 7. Airbus states their next, single-aisle, airline will be 30% more efficient … 20% coming from the propulsion and 10% from the airframe design. The head of Rolls-Royce stated that the 20% from propulsion is more than extremely aggressive. 8. The real answer could be a combination of all of them. For example electric power boost on takeoff is possible. 9. Lots of talk about airlines with much shorter range which would need to include a different business model. In other words, a true regional airplane that wouldn't have the capability of flying the longer range missions (200-300 mile range). 10. The TRL (Technical Readiness Level) of all of these new technologies (with the exception of battery electric) is between 0 and 2 and ALL have a long ways to go. Just my top 10 … that I can remember with my notes. The webinar is planned to be posted online within 24 hours. Right now there is a beautiful bicycle anxiously waiting for me to put another 30 miles on her. Not emissions free, but only a small portion of a horsepower required. It's a new day, it's a new dawn and I can once again be fully emotional

Yes, sorry. I set the altitude pre-select to the altitude of the hold on the missed approach. So if the MAP procedure is to climb to 6000 right turn to 360 direct HYGEN, I'd set the altitude pre-select to 6000 and the climb to 500 ft/min (or as required). The IFD540 will handle the right turn to the fix and the hold. So all I have to do is push the button on the pre-select and add power.

“Don’t get dragged in by Chino” “Even if the factory is forced to close....nobody benefits from the rumors..” I’ve been thinking on and off today, what words to offer up for Chino’s rumor post this morning........ Anthony supplied the words . What possible good comes from rumors ...... none! It’s best always to know the facts and truths before jumping to conclusions, or making judgments based on someone’s false or misleading information, whether intentional or not . This holds true in ANY topic !

Nothing to apologize for. How often do we get a taste of the simply joy of a kid and a new experience when we’re adults? Enjoy your Mooney. I still have to apologize to my wife after an excellent flight - apologize because I’m talking animated and happily while to her it is kind of just another flight. However to me, I’ve again slayed gravity and mastered great circle routes. Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Exactly the way I took it, you were sharing an emotion of happiness as you were seeing something pretty cool with your pride and joy. Absolutely nothing to be sorry about

Removed from a 1979 J Model. Pilots Trim switch is included. Good overall condition, the co-pilots Mooney emblem cover does have small crack in the plastic. These are not a direct swap without the elevator control yoke and universals from a donor airplane, so I have revised this listing to include one of those yokes as well (removed from the same donor airplane as the yokes/shafts). Great opportunity for someone to upgrade their yokes/shafts in a vintage bird and also eliminate an AD. My apologies some of the pics are sideways- they are right side up in my computer so not sure why they are being skewed. Price does not include shipping.

I may have been one of the first to run into this. SureFly worked with me and even sent a new unit to see if it was a clocking issue at assembly. We finally figured out the gear issue and they sent the newer version of the gear and it was all resolved. Regarding the break in of the gear, they are well oiled and likely not a major concern. I think the new gear is the path of least resistance. Regarding the MAP hose, there are a couple of threads with images of various ways to accommodate it. I can appreciate the frustration, but at the same time it can’t be easy to design a system to adapt to over 60 years worth of aircraft of varying manufacture and configuration. I’ve been rather happy with mine after the initial installation issues. Cold starts are near automobile like, hot starts are more consistent.

There was a report of difficulty during install for various mags... because a part was different than expected... So... for a few bucks more, swapping out the errant part is a possibility... The electronic mags guys are just finding out how many different versions of mags are really out in the field.... I think Rob @takair may have detailed what he had to do to get the mag up to speed for proper installation... Being off a few degrees isn’t going to make anyone happy... I think I remember the Woodruff issue... and not the Parker one... PP thoughts only, not a mechanic... Best regards, -a-

New airframes were less expensive in yesteryear. On the other hand, we have a bounty of pre-owned aircraft that mostly didn't exist back then. Our preowned aircraft are far less than the aircraft of yesteryear, but probably not all that much more expensive to operate. Mooney's biggest competition wasn't Cirrus, it was older Mooneys. You can buy a vintage airframe and have it restored to like new condition and give it a glass panel (which also didn't exist in yesteryear) and pay proportionate to what an airplane cost long ago. This could be the Golden age of general aviation if we really wanted it so.

I do not have much input on the Tesla thread portion of this post. But I would like to thank you guys for the encouraging words on Mooney airplanes. I am continuing my pursuit of putting one in my own hanger. In regards to the Tesla information it is very entertaining to read.

I did my own in a 67F, this panel came from Hendricks mfg. it cost 2.5amu or there abouts, took about 20-30 hrs...Had to remove prop and mixture cables, good excuse to replace. That prob took the most time. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Just MHO, but I admit I am completely blown away by Tesla technology and innovation. 10 years ago when nobody could get electric cars to go 100 miles, Tesla figured out how to do 300 miles- in a high performance, luxury car at that. Amazing. But when it came time for me to buy a new car, I bought an Audi. I can buy a lot of dead dinosaurs for the $60,000 difference in price.

I have ridden in my boss's Tesla. Frankly, I'm not too impressed with cars in general, and I didn't think it was any better than my BMW 1-er in fitment and quality. Sure it has plenty of torque and it can go fast and accelerate very quickly, but it's way more than is legal or safe to use on most highways, and my car can more than double the interstate speed limit. His Tesla gets maybe 200-250 miles on a charge, I can go over 400 on a tank. He paid more than 3x for his Tesla what I paid for my car, brand new. It has a nice shiny screen to watch movies on while letting the Autopilot deliver one to the scene of the accident. As for the environmental benefits of using electricity as the source of power, I used to work in the generation business and I know a thing or two about how it gets generated and the overall environmental impact. Not terribly impressed with the supposed benefits, even before considering the impact of battery production and its long supply chain. As far as I can tell, Teslas at this point make nice bragging toys, and they perform quite well, but certainly not enough to justify the price tag.

Ok, lets bet on this quarter...Ill buy your drinks at the next Mooney Summit if GM or Ford or Chryslers profit is more than Teslas q2. Or heck, Q3, We know they didnt beat them q1. Heck, Ill buy your drinks at the Summit anyway an interesting charting site you can get free cash flow, long term debt, profit etc from for all of them (and many other companies) hypercharts.co

Swapping stock to a standard 6 pack is no big deal. Inexpensive if you can do it yourself, and can be done in a day or two depending on how far things move. I wouldnt pass pass on a good airplane because it has the old layout. That would be silly.

Cutting a new panel can be done relatively inexpensively, depending on how much involvement the owner provides. You can manufacture your own panel (using a template or your own custom design) and have your A&P install it as a minor mod, or install it yourself and have your A&P inspect and sign off your work. The real cost comes when you start replacing the steam gauges you have for the glass ones you want. tom

If you like working with your hands, you can do it yourself for not a lot of dough. I had access to a water jet system to cut a new panel from aluminum and did the work myself under the supervision of an A&P IA. The cost for that neglecting my labor, was < 0.5AMU. Doing it yourself gives you ideas, and a chance to change things up for your liking, and spot potential problems (like broken panel isolation mounts). We decided to get rid of the EGT selector and install an engine monitor. The cost of a JPI900, again installed by us under supervision was < 4AMU. Here's a link showing what we did:

You don’t have to know what the sold price is to watch the market. look at the ones that come up and go off, and the ones that languish. If it comes to market and is gone within a few weeks, you can almost bet it was priced appropriately. If it sits for months, well, it’s got issues not advertised, or just too high, either way, price is wrong. not 100% accurate, but pretty darn close.

They have hundreds of frame styles, look around and see. I get regular glasses and prescription sunglasses [a pair for each vehicle so I never leave them in the other car], but I wear Halos in the plane so really don't know about arm thickness; I generally get thick ones on my sunglasses anyway, so I can tell by feel if I'm wearing them or my regular glasses.

As a career EE I'm not so sure it is as 'crazy' as you think. Beyond the dependence upon EXTERNAL electrical power, I have seen enough ESD caused electronic component failures to be VERY nervous with both mags being electronic. Nearby lightning strike comes to mind. Further, beyond easy starts (and, one E-mag will do that) I'm not convinced they provide much, if any, benefit for a stationary engine such as those in our aircraft. I'm happy to keep my tractor mags

I used to think the safe number was 47 not 46 so that was 2500 and 22 and since it's a C with only the single EGT I can only go by the lean to rough then rich to smooth so no real idea how rich of peak that is. I've only ever managed to get it to LOP once what a magical moment. I normally fly much easier like 2400 20 which yields around 135 knots but was fun to stretch it out. AI is about 2mph fast based on GPS runs. Most likely higher than 75% on those flights. For me it's all based on OAT cause Snoopy likes cold air. Biggest challenge is keeping things cool up front.

4 years have passed since that article... are we any closer to being allowed DUEL E mags?

It takes a ball mover to prompt de utters to get wit da program! I still love my hoodie!!

I bet it will also make Tesla look parsimonious.

It's only 1050 because I have FIKI installed. That cost a bit in UL, but I have FIKI and don't regret it and still have an ok UL. A non FIKI Eagle certainly has quite a bit more.

ACR= Anti-Cam Round out places like The yard store sells them and many other aircraft suppliers has them. https://www.yardstore.com/phillips-2-acr-b-4x4-bit It kind hard to see in picture but has "teeth" to help grab the screw.

Mike, if you think the electric cars make Lexus look old and antiquated, and Mitch, if you're impressed by the Tesla X, hang onto your hats late this year and into the next year. Cadillac is going to make Tesla look old and antiquated. Got to check out a 2021 Escalade at our store recently, I don't even have words for the technology in it. Yes, it is "currently" a gas model, but the all electric Cadillacs are coming, and they are something else...

Gents, don’t get dragged in by Chino... The clouds have been blocking his part of the Mooney world for an inordinate amount of time... Yes, bad news, real or fictional does make people think twice before pulling the trigger... Serious people are always thinking twice anyway... MS has many X-Mooney employees and family too... Not all are embittered by their experience... We even have the two people that created the Mooney Movie....’boots on the ground’.... way cool if you haven’t seen it... It is better to have a healthy Mooney factory than a closed one... Auwde, the Mooney plant has a history of being closed for various reasons in its life... usually economy driven... When it closed in Y2K... I bought a pre-flown M20C... Most of the wear parts I ever needed were available from aircraft hardware suppliers and Lycoming.... Today, for the more challenging to get parts... we have something called owner supplied parts... where a community the size of MS has been successful at properly building the required parts... During the Great Recession, The plant was down for some time again... I bought a pre-flown M20R... So... people looking to buy a plane will want to do there homework... if buying a pre-flown Mooney, the plant being closed doesn’t change things very much.... oddly... Talking up the points about the plant being closed will wash out the weaker hands at the plane buying table... somewhat artificially lowering the prices... by making fewer buyers available... Even if the plant is forced to close... nobody benefits from the rumors... 2020 is going to be a tough year... We have experienced a very sharp recession... fast down, and a pretty quick up trend for the economy... unemployment soared... a pandemic has spread across the globe... Of course, Main Street is separate from Wall Street... Buying a plane will be more challenging for main streeters... If you are looking to buy a pre-flown Mooney... thank people that point out problems at the factory... They are helping you with your price negotiations... PP thoughts only, not a plane sales guy... or sales disruptor... If buying a plane and speed and efficiency are important.... Go Mooney! Best regards, -a-

At 10500 WOT 2500 this calcs out to around 145 knots. Pretty amazing for 180 horsepower

Recall this thread back from April 2018, when IFR pilot took off from Petaluma, CA in IFR conditions and came down a mile from the airport. We now have the NTSB factual report out here https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20180407X35303&AKey=1&RType=Final&IType=FA Although the pilot made some mistakes, including telling ATC he was going to depart RWY 29, but was holding at RWY 11 and then departed RWY 11 after getting his release and void time. Pilot didn't fly the ODP and instead climbed to about 300' before turning left and climbing into the fog (per witness). But apparently what brought the plane down was water in the fuel, not CFIT and the plane came down at a very steep angle burying the engine in 3' of mud. Investigators found approx a 50-50 mixture of water and fuel in the fuel divider. They also provided a picture of the left fuel cap showing cracking in the outer o-ring. No mention was made of the inner o-rings but did mention the right cap was thermally damaged (post crash fire). More about the water from the report: "Another witness reported that the accident airplane landed at O69 around 1645 the day before the accident and taxied to the fuel island. He stated that he helped the pilot obtain fuel, observed him sump the airplane's fuel tanks after refueling, and instructed him where to park for the evening. He stated that the accident pilot queried a FedEx pilot on the appropriate instrument departure procedure for runway 29...." So we know the pilot was observed sumping the tanks after refueling the day before departure, but we don't really know if he sumped the tanks again before departure after the plane had been out in the rain. But if he had, he probably would have found the water in the fuel since it brought the plane down very quickly after departure. However, the NTSB doesn't assign a cause to the accident - its only a "Factual" report. There is no greater risk of water in the fuel than after our plane has been sitting on the ramp in the rain.

Interestingly, the product liability insurance on a C210 is very similar to that of a Citation … a lot of it is in the number of people on board.

I hauled my kids and their friends when they were younger — we had an ‘extended’ family ;o) -Don

My guess is he already has the McCauley on his plane (or one he is looking at) or is looking at a cheaper option utilizing a take off prop from another plane upgrading.

Back in 1989 when the TLS (later called Bravo) came out, the TLS and 252 competed for sales, so in 1990 the 252 was discontinued. They revived the K in 1997 and had the Encore correctly priced between the Ovation and the Bravo. It probably was taking away some sales of the Bravo, but they were selling 100 plus airplanes a year at the time and IMHO had the best line-up of airplanes in Mooney's history - the Allegro, Ovation, Encore and Bravo. They had a good marketing department. They had salespeople that wanted to sell something at every airplane event, However, in 1997 the Dopp family had just purchased Mooney and the son Chris came in and made changes without even having a clue. Soon into it they scrapped the J and K because the airframes themselves didn't cost much less to build than the long body. Duh! Of course, but they needed different models to appeal to different people. With the line-up they had, they appealed to a wide spectrum of people and if they would have just kept a steady hand things would have been a lot better. There was still a demand for both the J and K when they were scrapped.

Yea, I am, no question of that. I am not hating on the former big 3, just pointing out the errors of their ways that left them in this position. No real point other than we all hate change, and sometimes that is to our detriment. Like I said, I have raced Porsches, drove for Datsun, bought many new Detroit cars and did so without "hate". I believe in flexibility, which is what I expouse here. "thats the way we have always done it" is the death of many companies. Tesla's profit history hasnt dated back to 1910 like some has for sure. This is a game of what are you doing for me today, not what you did in 1980, however. Worked for Ford back in the day when he disrupted the horse industry, and is working for Tesla today. They have had a good run. Hopefully the little 3 can reinvent themselves and we all win, I know their survival depends on it. Agreed. And I really am not attacking the US auto industry. Tesla after all, is a US auto maker also. We sometimes tend to forget that or ignore that. In fact, until they opened the China plant, he was the only manufacture that was exclusively US. Now, like the FIat owned Chrysler, Ford and GM, they are global in scale. I do care about the environment and walk the walk, and in no way am dissin big oil. THey, like the auto industry, might have to reinvent themselves to meet with the future going forward. The amount of energy in a gal of desiel is hard to argue with. BTW I am also a LEED certified AP who gets sustainable energy plans and systems, but I digress. I have no idea why a lead alternative hasnt been certified yet. Bringing this back to Mooney, dont be surprised at what you might see come from them soon...

You can always shop at www.zennioptical.com, and get several pair for half of that price . . . .

Flightstream 210:works with GNS and GTN boxes. I always do flight plan on GP, then transfer after I’m done, even in the air if I get a complicated reroute.

Mooneys love the yellow arc.

Always a good idea to compare your AI to your turn coordinator, as well. I practiced a lot of partial panel with just the TC and compass going through IFR.

We just spoke with Shana at Mooney and she said that Mooney was in between website providers.

I’ve had three alternator failures in my m20f. All three were due to old wiring and not the alternator.

I agree that it would be a good fit to the 231 airframe, especially to those of us that like the TO and climb performance of the 231 but have family members that don't care for using O2. My pick would be the IO-550-N at 428 lbs.

Short story....I work at a at a very big flight school. We have a fleet of 70 single engine pistons, oldest being a 2013 model. Carbureted O-360s. I’m not at liberty to share the manufacturer’s name. But it rhymes with “Diaper”... We fly a lot. Often >400 hours per day. 7 days a week. Last summer we had a rash of engine fires at startup. 6 planes melted down on the ramp, no injuries but half of them totaled the aircraft. It was always on startup. Diaper engineers were called in. Lycoming and carb manufacturer. NTSB. FAA. All of them said it was the pilots fault. Flooding the engines. Pilot error. Dumb pilots. So we bought a FLIR camera and boroscope. We tested and tested...until...we figured out that after shutdown, with no fuel flow and no airflow the engine and component temperatures actually RISE after shutdown for about the first 40 minutes. The heat soaks throughout the cowling and vaporizes the fuel in fuel lines running from electric fuel pump on the firewall to the carburetor. You open the mixture valve and vaporized fuel “steam” rushes into the carburetor and flushes all of the fuel in the bowl down down down into the air box. Get a backfire and whoosh you have an engine fire. That story isn’t directly relevant to this discussion, but this is. Diaper and Lycoming said that the only thing they knew to do was fly less. Or convert our fleet to fuel injection. So, they’re converting our whole fleet to fuel injection (mostly at their expense). But now we have fuel injected IO-360s dying in the run up area. “Stupid student pilots” they said. “Don’t try that again,” we said. So indeed, after discussing internally, the manufacturers decided that at idle during taxi there is insufficient airflow and fuel flow for fuel system components stay below 155 degrees (temperature at which fuel boils at our elevation). So, Diaper and Lycoming say not to retard the throttles below 1000 rpm while on the ground...keep fuel flowing, and it can’t vaporize. (This is while they work on approval for a fuel return circuit that flows fuel back to the reservoir at low rpm like in a Cessna.) So your problem sounds like basically every day that I taxi a brand new and very well maintained airplane with an IO-360. Of course I’m in the desert at 1400’ with very hot engines. But like you, it clears right up as soon as you’re rolling down the runway. Not sure if that’s helpful. Also sorry that ended up being a pretty long story!

Quote: BigTex I recently was reviewing the service manual for my '65 M20C and they have a whole laundry list of lubricates and grease that they recommend. This got be to thinking about what today's products translate to these 40+ year old recommendations? I'm assuming with the quality of today's products, do we need to have this many of unique products or can they be combined? Here's the list of the MM: Low Temperature Oil (General Purpose) MIL-L-7870 Aeroshell Fluid 3 mineral oil MIL-G-7711 or MIL-G-81322 Grease Aeroshell grease 6 or grease 22 (GP airframe grease, 22 is thickened) Grease (High Temperature) MIL-L-3545 Aeroshell grease 5 (wheel bearings) MIL-G-23827 or Hartzell DG Grease Aeroshell grease 33 (General purpose airframe grease, contains lithium) Hydraulic Fluid (Red) MIL-H-5606 5606 but the newest is 73282, which is fire resistant ans miscible with 5606 and all compatible hardware Graphite & Kerosene Graphite & MIL-G-3278 Grease or MIL-G-23827 Powdered Graphite Teflon Spray (Tri-Flow) use on all rod ends in the control and LG system, and in door locks. Stick Lubricant (Door Ease or Equivalent) Standard Oil Aviation Grease No. 5 w/10% BV Molybdenum Disulfide or MIL-G-23827 AM1 Buy this from LASAR for 15$ per 4oz jar. It is grease with moly disulfide powder mixed in 10% minimum. You cannot get this at an auto parts store. It is not available anywhere else. Do not skimp on this, it goes in your landing gear actuator gears which, if 40:1, are not available for any price. Lubriplate 630AA (10% BV Molybdenum Disulfide Mixture Permissible) Seal Dressing If I were to open up your lubrication cabinet what would I find that would translate to the above products listed in Mooney's lubrication guide?