Small crack in the case -- ugh, looks like engine rebuild time.

[Lood]

Just curious - the last overhaul was a field or factory overhaul or new/reman? 700 SMOH for an engine at the point of failure seems very unlucky.. unless it wasn't overhauled right the first time

 

I hope that doesn't happen to me - just got my engine overhauled from zephyr and waiting to get it into the aircraft

 

It was indeed a field overhaul and it was clear that every possible shortcut was taken to make it as cheap as possible. And that's why I decided to replace just about everything with brand new parts. I did investigate getting a reconditioned crank shaft and case, but I don't have any plans to sell soon, so I didn't want to run the risk and have either of these fail on me prematurely.

Like here in SA, I'm sure you also get engine shops and then you get engine shops... Stay with the reputable guys with a good track record and this shouldn't happen.

[N201MKTurbo]

I just replaced the thru studs in my "Zero Time" factory reman. It came from the factory with oversized thru studs. I was a little POed about that. The case was definitely not new, or in my opinion not to new limits.

[N601RX]

Lycoming also sells new rods with oversized rod bolts in them. If they get the hole to big, no problem just put in an oversized bolt.

[DaV8or]

But if you turn in your engine as a core for a "zero time" Lycoming reman, doesn't it get repaired, reworkd, whatever and then repackaged and sold to become someone else's "zero time" engine?  Likewise, the engine you receive may have been in someone else's plane for a long time, but now it's time is magically starting over. Just because it's sold as zero time doesn't mean it's all new. 

 

We have about 3500 TT on the engine, rebuilt once (Mattituck, 1993 - don't know if it was welded or anything else).  The engine was delivered to Mooney in October, 1976.

 

Lycoming won't take my engine, so they wouldn't be sending it back out to anyone else. You're right that not everything is new in a factory zero time remanufacture, but since I would be insisting on the roller tappets, I would maybe used only once before. I also believe that Lycoming won't use a case that has been welded before. Depending on finances at the time, I might even go brand new... or field overhaul and a for sale sign. Hopefully I'll get another decade out of this thing as is, knock on all things wood.

[N601RX]

Lycoming will take a "complete, operable, airworthy engine at time of removal" that hasnt been removed from service over a year ago. . Meaning, if it a complete, running engine, there is no core chargeback.  If you disassemble it, they wont take it.

If it met that criteria, I don't think I would be removing it in the 1st place.

[mcpilot]

I have been told that the Major engine manufacturers want to get the older cores and especially cylinders out of circulation and have been very generous with core returns.  It may be a little self serving on their part, but when they grind used cylinders and other components up for scrap, that is one less core for the competition to overhaul and place back into the market.  

 

If your core has a cracked case but was running and in service when removed, I would say your are safe returning it to Lycoming for exchange for a reman or factory overhaul.  Lycoming and TCM do not repair cases and reuse them as far as I am told.  They get scrapped and your reman has a new or serviceable non-cracked case with all of the latest improvements. 

 

It's really hard to pass that up....

[jetdriven]

If it met that criteria, I don't think I would be removing it in the 1st place.

An oil filter full of metal might change your mind

[N601RX]

I agree, but with an oil filter full of metal would it be airworthy? From what I've read the last couple of years they are not as strick on the cores that they will accept as they were sevral years ago.

[jetdriven]

After overhwelming customer outrage over core chargebacks (and the fact they will be scrapping all non-roller core engine cases), their new core policy as of 1995 is this:

 

 

Lycoming Engines is a division of Avco Corporation, a wholly owned subsidiary of Textron Inc.

Todd Stoner

Vice President Sales & Marketing

652 Oliver Street Williamsport, PA 17701 Tel 570/327-6181
Fax 570/327-7101

New Core Policy - Effective April 3, 2005 Dear Valued Lycoming Customer:

Lycoming is customer-focused and takes pride in listening to any and all customer concerns. A number of our customers have spoken loud and clear about our charge back policy for unusable crankshafts and crankcases, and we have listened. Lycoming has made ordering simpler, procedures clearer and pricing predictable, while maintaining our high quality and safety standards.

Here is what you can expect from Lycoming:

• No More Exchange Core Charge-Backs!
  When you return a like, complete, operating and active exchange engine core on time, there will be no reductions in core value. There will be no penalties for normal wear or normal field repairs.

• Elimination of mandatory legal agreement!
  A simple one-page document explains the core return policy.

• Exchange Core Return Time Extended to 120 Days!
  This provides you with more flexibility in scheduling the instillation of your new factory overhaul or rebuild engine.

• Reduced Exchange Core Late Fees!
  The late penalties have been reduced to $300 a month, if you are unable to comply with the 120-day requirement.

• Simplified return documentation!
  One Packing Slip, a logbook, and a sticker on the carton is all that is required to assure timely processing of your core credit.

• Dedicated Core Representative to Assist Distributors!
  Your Lycoming Distributor is there to help you, and Lycoming is there to help its Distribution partner. Every customer and every exchange core gets individual and special treatment to make the return painless and to get the core credit to you fast.

  And here is all that Lycoming expects from you:

 

 

• When you exchange a like engine core that has a genuine Lycoming crankcase and crankshaft and is complete, operating and active, there will be no reductions in core value.

• You have up to a full 120 days from the factory invoice date of the replacement engine to return your exchange engine core. This gives you more flexibility to schedule removal and installation.

• Late fees have been reduced by up to 86%, to provide you with more viable options when a timely core return is inconvenient.

• To assist you with the engine exchange process, your Lycoming Distributor has access to a dedicated core representative to help assure that all return core requirements are understood before the core is returned, to facilitate the acceptance of the core at the factory, and expedite a clear and complete core credit.

  Be assured that only the policy has changed, not the quality.

• Although we will no longer charge for unserviceable parts, we have in

  no way compromised our high quality standards.

• Lycoming has an FAA-approved quality system. The basis of that system is that parts which do not meet Lycoming’s exacting specifications cannot be used. For example, a “repair” in an area where no repair is permitted by Lycoming renders the part unusable. The same type of quality system is in use at all FAA-approved and regulated OEMs. By definition, under that system, any such part is deemed un-airworthy and must be scrapped.

• We are aware, as are many of you, that various repair facilities have obtained what are known as “Approved Repair Processes” or “Approved Process Specifications” from various FAA-FSDO offices. In such a case, an FAA representative, not Lycoming Engineering, has approved the repair process. Lycoming has no knowledge of the basis for that approval, testing, if any, to support the approval, nor of the repair process itself, which the repair facility claims is proprietary and not to be disclosed by the FAA to Lycoming. In many cases, however, the repair is in an area where Lycoming would not approve such a repair under any circumstances. In some cases, the part has been stamped by a repair service indicating the part has been repaired using a proprietary repair process of some type and we cannot, from a visual examination, determine exactly what may have been done. That, too, renders the part unusable by Lycoming. If we cannot determine what was done, we cannot verify that it meets our specifications. In short, we cannot stand behind the part. We cannot reuse it and place it back

 

in service. To do otherwise would circumvent our FAA-approved quality system.

• You, the customer, would not buy a Lycoming engine with parts that Lycoming would not stand behind. Lycoming will not sell such engines or parts. If we put it out there, we stand behind it.

And be assured that the value of a genuine Lycoming factory overhauled or rebuilt engine is as great as ever. You still can expect and get:

• Exceptional product support and backing, reliable power, and durability

• Factory backed warranty protection

• Dedicated aftermarket factory and field based technical support team

• Dedicated aftermarket engine production line with processes that mirror the OEM new engine manufacturing assembly line

o Same guaranteed quality, safety and workmanship, as OEM new engines

o Same guaranteed production engine testing regimen as OEM new engines

o Same guaranteed performance standards of a new OEM engine • Automatic Engine Upgrading / Updating

o Factory engines incorporate the latest engine configurations / product improvements automatically at no additional charge.

o Every engine is built in compliance with applicable service instructions, service bulletins and airworthiness directives automatically and all parts required for compliance are included at no additional charge.

• All factory engines contain only genuine Lycoming replacement parts... ...never PMA or field-reworked / refurbished parts

• Strict adherence to Lycoming Overhaul Manual Specifications
  Every Aftermarket Engine is built per Lycoming Service Bulletin 240 (Minimum Standards) and then some - ALWAYS

• In addition to the mandatory replacement parts required per Lycoming Service Bulletin 240 every factory engine receives at least the following NEW parts at no additional charge:

  o Cylinder Kits – NEW including:
  Cylinder heads and barrels - NEW

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pistons and rings- NEW
Piston pins and plugs- NEW
Intake and exhaust valves- NEW
Valve guides, seats, and springs- NEW

o Valve lifters bodies and hydraulic units – NEW
o Ignition harnesses and spark plugs – NEW
o Diaphragm fuel pumps – NEW
o All interior and exterior hardware and fasteners replaced – NEW o Those engines that are sold so-equipped will also include the

following parts – NEW Starter

Alternator
Slick Magneto
Bendix Dual Magneto

Lycoming will continue to provide safe, reliable, warranted aftermarket engines, built to strict manufacturing specifications and incorporating product improvements that meet the current configuration. With our improved exchange engine policy, our customers will also be assured of a competitive price and a risk-free core credit allowance.

Sincerely,

Todd Stoner
Vice President of Sales and Marketing

[Seth]

If you do choose the field OH route, recommend you go with new cylinders rather than re-working the ones you have. New cylinders don't cost all that much more than re-worked ones.

Good luck!

+1

[Becca]

Lycoming will take a "complete, operable, airworthy engine at time of removal" that hasnt been removed from service over a year ago. . Meaning, if it a complete, running engine, there is no core chargeback.  If you disassemble it, they wont take it.

 

Based on my albeit limited experience, they will actually take back an engine that does not meet these conditions, but they dramatically reduce the value of the core from its full value.