Airliner. Aisiana 777 crashed at SFO at 11:30 today.

[320KPH]

New video shows the plane dragging through the water for about 1000 feet, the striking the seawall so hard it throws the plane into the air. http://edition.cnn.com/video/?/video/us/2013/07/07/vo-plane-sf-plane-crash-on-cam.courtesy-fred-hayes

 

Sounds like a religious experience for the cameraman! (Oh my God, Oh my God... funny how even agnostics and atheists involuntarily pray at times)) Great flying to get out of the water. Throws new light on the incident. 

I like the speculation on this forum much more than on PPRune, it's much more authentic!

[Skywarrior]

I was once told by an airline pilot friend that it was not difficult to accidentally turn off the autothrottles in the model of airliner he flew at the time (twenty years ago).

 

If the pilots were rubbernecking while the autothrottles were thought to be on, but were actually off, the plane would slow and descend until someone on the flight deck noticed and said "Oh, sh**!" and slammed the throttles forward, then pulled the nose up.

[jetdriven]

The latest NTSB info says the throttles were at idle until they got the stick shaker, about 2 seconds before impact.  Nice job.

[FloridaMan]

The pilot sitting in the captains seat had only 43 hours in type. The GS was out on the ILS as well. It was an 11 hour leg. 

 

Wide runway = visual illusion. Over open water also = visual illusion. 

 

Whoever put that guy in the left seat should be held just as responsible. 

[bnicolette]

The pilot sitting in the captains seat had only 43 hours in type. The GS was out on the ILS as well. It was an 11 hour leg. 

 

Wide runway = visual illusion. Over open water also = visual illusion. 

 

Whoever put that guy in the left seat should be held just as responsible.

How much time should he have before getting in the left seat?

[NotarPilot]

Can anyone who has landed on 28R at SFO shed some light on the PAPI system? Does it still make it difficult to follow the PAPI when you factor in the illusion of flying over the water all the way down final?

[fantom]

We don't know if the pilot flying this leg was in the left seat, do we, and it doesn't matter IF the more 777 experienced pilot was doing his job. Aviation liability lawyers are already lining up and this will be ugly!

 

SEOUL, July 8 (Reuters) - Asiana Airlines Inc said the pilot in charge of landing the Boeing 777 that crash-landed at San Francisco's airport on Saturday was training for the long-range plane and that it was his first flight to the airport with the jet.

"It was Lee Kang-kook's maiden flight to the airport with the jet... He was in training. Even a veteran gets training (for a new jet)," a spokeswoman for Asiana Airlines said on Monday.

The plane was travelling "significantly below" its intended speed and its crew tried to abort the landing just seconds before it hit the seawall in front of the runway, the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board said on Sunday.

"He has a lot of experience and previously flown to San Francisco on different planes including the B747... and he was assisted by another pilot who has more experience with the 777," the spokeswoman said.

Lee, who started his career at Asiana as an intern in 1994, has 9,793 hours of flying experience, but only 43 hours with the Boeing 777 jet.

Co-pilot Lee Jeong-min, who has 3,220 hours of flying experience with the Boeing 777 and a total of 12,387 hours of flying experience, was helping Lee Kang-kook in the landing, the spokeswoman said.

National Transportation Safety Board Chairwoman Deborah Hersman said Sunday that it was too early to say whether pilot error or mechanical failure were to blame.

[Bennett]

Newest NTSB report: Airspeed was 106 Kts at impact.  Normal approach speed 137 Kts.  If approach speed was 1.3 Vso, then Vso would be 105.38 Kts. No wonder the stick shaker was, well, shaking. Anyone know what the Vso would be for a 777 at light weights (fuel having been burned well down for this long trip)? 

[fantom]

Sucker was dragging it in, way behind the power curve. His approach speed should have been around 150 KIAS, a major delta! Should have spooled up and gone around much earlier.

 

http://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/commercial/airports/faqs/arcandapproachspeeds.pdf

 

Dumb, irresponsible, maybe criminal. I don't need to wait for the NTSB report!

[John Pleisse]

The airline and NTSB will point to time in type. I doubt that was the issue.

[fantom]

The airline and NTSB will point to time in type. I doubt that was the issue.

 

Me too....more like time in the rack and/or head in the rectum.

[stevesm20b]

It will be interesting to find out how a flight crew with over 20,000 combined hours, and flown into hundreds of airports all over the world allowed themselves to let airspeed and altitude fall way below minimums on this approach to landing.

[Alan Fox]

I don't see a 10000 hour pilot as inexperienced....How many sim hours did he have in type , ......It will be interesting to see what happened and why .......I will let the "experts here " blame this and that , go ahead and throw stones......I personally will wait for the NTSB report....

[rbridges]

Along with everyone else, I'm anxious to see the final NTSB report.  Stall speed is piloting 101.  I'm very interested to see why the plane came in so slow.

[201er]

Maybe he should have been flying the AOA rather than speed... then his time in type wouldn't be so important and that he didn't know the right speed for that plane at that load...

[Piloto]

They should have blamed the whole event on birds ingested. Now there is going to be lawsuits all over. There is about 33 lawyers at SFO trying to get a piece of the bonanza.

 

Personally looking at this thing now I think the pilot was trying to impress the copilot by putting the B777 on the numbers. Well, he did it.

 

José

[Bennett]

From Associated Press: The autopilot was switched off at about 1,600 feet as the plane began its final descent, according to an account of the last 82 seconds of flight provided by Hersman. Over the next 42 seconds, the plane appeared to descend normally, reaching about 500 feet and slowing to 134 knots (154 mph), a 777 pilot for a major airline familiar with Hersman's description told The Associated Press. The pilot spoke on the condition of anonymity because his company had not authorized him to speak publicly. But something went wrong during the following 18 seconds. The plane continued slowing to 118 knots (136 mph), well below its target speed of 137 knots (158 mph) that is typical for crossing the runway threshold. By that time, it had descended to just 200 feet. Eight seconds later, with the speed still falling, Hersman said, the throttles were moved forward, an apparent attempt by the pilot to increase speed. But it was too little, too late. Five seconds later, at 50 percent power, speed began to increase. A key question raised by the NTSB's account is why two experienced pilots - the pilot flying the plane and another supervising pilot in the other seat - apparently didn't notice the plane's airspeed problem. Part of the answer to that question may lie in whether the pilot flying, after switching off the autopilot, still had the plane's autothrottle engaged during the descent. Aviation safety experts have long warned that an overreliance on automation is contributing to an erosion of pilots' stick-and-rudder flying skills. It's too soon to say if that was the case in the Asiana crash, but it's something NTSB investigators will be exploring, they said.

[Hector]

I don't have an issue with him being in the left seat, after all the pilot did have over 10k hours on other aircraft including 747. But the check pilot that was there to be make sure he was doing ok, what the hell was he doing? How did they let this unstabilized approach continue this far? I suspect this will be another interesting case of cockpit resource management.

[flyboy0681]

I don't see a 10000 hour pilot as inexperienced....How many sim hours did he have in type , ......It will be interesting to see what happened and why .......I will let the "experts here " blame this and that , go ahead and throw stones......I personally will wait for the NTSB report....

 

I'm with you.

[Piloto]

Hasn't anybody just interview the pilots to find out what was going on. There is the possibility that the speed displayed on the PFD was frozen momentarily but the data going to the FDR was the actual speed. This would explain why the pilots did not increase thrust power. PFDs can lock up momentarily under certain combination of inputs not anticipated. This is what the watchdog is for. If this is the case it will be very difficult to recreate the failure. I just can't imagine two experienced pilots ignoring airspeed on landing.

 

José

[fantom]

Since when is theorizing and hypothesizing "throwing stones"?

 

 

Hasn't anybody just interview the pilots to find out what was going on.

 

Probably talking to them through their lawyers and union reps....It was a FOUR pilot crew. No excuse for this screw up!

[Bennett]

In case you were curious: 

 

"A number of insurers are involved in insuring the aircraft, with coverage totaling $2.3 billion. Dow Jones says AIG has the largest portion of the risk at $100 million."  

 

Most of the cover is for Bodily Injury and Property Damage, with Crew Coverage and Hull coverages at what would appear to be adequate limits. Commercial airliner insurance rates have dropped appreciably in the last several years, and the industry has enormous capacity available. Even the corporate jet market rates are low, and it is not difficult to obtain very high liability limits for jets used in business. Satori, my company, is a risk management consultancy, and working with competent brokers, one of our clients who owns two corporate jets in support of their businesses is insured at the $200,000,000 "smooth" level, with more available if desired. 

[FlyDave]

Personally looking at this thing now I think the pilot was trying to impress the copilot by putting the B777 on the numbers. Well, he did it.

 

José

HaHaHaHaHa - Great observation Jose!

[kmyfm20s]

More like the co-pilot was betting the pilot he couldn't exit by taxiway Alpha, he ended up using his water to sandbar landing technique.

Amazing only 2 dead!

[201er]

Amazing only 2 dead!

And would have been less if the rescuers didn't run 1 over.