VFR into IMC

[robert7467]

Oh and by the way I didn't plan on dive bombing into IMC, I did it because because my poor judgment told me I can drop down, and it wasn't the case, so I did what I had to do to avoid zero visibility getting below the cloud base.

[robert7467]

You find a hole down, you think you can descend clear if clouds. You start your decent, and realize oh shit I can't descend clear of clouds, but with all this going on you are barely within the structural tolerance of the airplane so you slowly start pulling up before you reach the cloud base. All I can say is this, is there is no way to properly explain my situation, because it happened so fast, and all I can do is fly the airplane, which I did. I did not have time for what I should done, what I could have done, what I will do in the future. I had one goal, and that was getting out of the shit, and to a better altitude, while remaining calm to get to a better place where I can asses the situation, which I did. Unfortunately it's easy to call someone a dumbass in the ground, but if this happened to you, and you survived, you, as well as others on the ground can can probably come up with 100 ways you screwed up. If this situation didn't bother me, and I didn't want to tell others about it, then maybe I shouldn't fly a plane. But instead, I am more than humbled by it, and I do want to tell others, and I will never make the same mistake again.

[xftrplt]

Well if I lost my motor, then I wouldn't be able to get out if it. It's easy to analyze on the ground.

First, you're not going to "lose your motor" to shock cooling.

Second, at the risk of abusing a dead equine, I suggest doing a web search on shock cooling. It's considered by many to be a myth.

Here's a link to an article in AVweb: http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182883-1.html

Third, flying is all about prioritization. Even if shock cooling were true, you had bigger fish to fry.

[robert7467]

You are likely right. Like I said I can only go by what I was taught, and I didn't want to lose the engine and have to deal with no power, into imc into the boot hills if MO.

[robert7467]

You have to admit, that was a lot if shit that was going on.

1st, oh no I am about to hit a wall if clouds, I am going to die if I do that.

2nd, there is a nice hole, I can make that with no problem. Carb heat out, prop forward, mixture rich, pull power to 15 inches.

3rd, oh no, I can't make that hole, so I am going to keep a close eye on vne, but I can do it!

4th, whew I made it, time to start slowing her down to get set up for the pattern.

5th, got 3 or 5 miles, wife look outside and look for towers, I will glance at iPad to make sure no obstructions.

6th, visibility is getting worse, but I can still see.

7th, visibility is getting worse with swirls, time to make a decision.

8th, no visibility is nothing, full power, pitch up towards hole and maintain 120, and don't look out window, look at instruments, trust instruments, don't look out window.

9th after 5 minutes start seeing blue. Start heading north call flight watch.

10th call flight watch no answer. Try 2nd frequency no answer, third time is a charm.

11th told flight watch my position and was assured that southbound was clear, and just an illusion.

12 call tower, notified to report right base for 22.

13th report right base for 22 and cleared to land.

14th cirrus reported 2 mile final and cleared to land.

15th told ATC that I was going to make 360 and follow cirrus in.

I then landed, thankful to be alive. I then became terrified and let it work up my mind, to the point where I was questioning whether I was going to fly again. After a few days and some words of encouragement from the aviation community, I decided that as I pilot, I don't know shit, and if I continue, I will need alot more training. Spill the beans on a veteran pilot that taught me what I needed to survive. Then the tension starts rising on this board, and I get into defense posture. To be continued.....

[Oscar Avalle]

Thank you guys for everything. I promise that I am not afraid of planes, I am just really shooken up by flying into IMC. I love airplanes so much, I wouldnt have the slightest issue doing aerobatics in one. The only thing I am worried about is this video with my family in the back:

 

 

 

That video is the reality of what could have happened in my situation, or what could happen in the future if I do something stupid again.

As I mentioned before, you did a GREAT JOB. A real pro... Take your time, relax and just think how much fun you have flying. Read our posts...laugh  and don't take us to serious we are just a bunch of Mooneyacks who love to talk about our planes when we are not flying. 

[FlyDave]

Robert,

 

You keep digging your hole deeper and deeper with every post. This brings to mind a great movie quote by Wilford Brimley that I think is applicable at this point. That saying is:

 

When you're up to your nose in shit, don't open your mouth

 

With every post you make you seem further and further from a cohesive story about what happened and how you got there.

You need to get with an instructor - one that can help you evaluate what you've said and done. This instructor needs to help you "get your head straight" about flying:

• What it is and what it isn't
• What risks you're taking and how you can mitigate them
• Whether and when you should be taking passengers
• What a good maintenance plan for your airplane is - you've had a lot of technical/mechanical problems in such a short flying career

Best of luck to you - but flying is a lot more than luck. Attitude is a BIG part of flying.

[robert7467]

Thanks Oscar. I did what I could in the best if my ability, I wish while I was up there I could have called my instructor, or opened my textbook but that was not the case. On the ground, I can thank God that I am alive, and think about this with a clear head, and fir the rest if my life I can think about what I could have done to avoid this situation in the first place. As far as the shock cooling issue, that is one example if why textbook is not always right.

[robert7467]

Luckily the maintenance that has been done has been top notch, the electrical issue was a broken brush in the alternator which caused it to mess up intermittently, so when we replaced the voltage regulator, it started working properly then after a couple hrs it failed, when the brushes were the culprit the whole time. This year we had the cowling painted, new tires and breaks, wheel bearings repacked, and a bunch if other little things. The landing light issue was in a different plane. We had the vors serviced and one is off 4 degrees so I am at the vor/ GPS upgrade crossroad. I am trying to determine whether I want to dump a ton of money in adding GPS, Glass, and autopilot with altitude hold, or just buy another plane with all the options I want. Otherwise she has a rebuilt engine and brand new prop, and she us good in that sense.

[BigTex]

So, let me get this straight... On your landing thread (too bad it's gone), you discarded all of the recommendations from this forum on how to land in favor of your old salt instructor because according to you he can fly anything with wings.  Is this the same guy that you're now saying isn't even a CFI?  What were/are you thinking man???

 

I would seriously consider selling your Mooney.  You really don't have any business flying that plane right now.   Take some time off... six months... maybe a year.  After you've had time away from aviation, re-evaluate if aviation is for you.

 

If the answer is yes, find the best flight school in your area and get yourself current an something like a 172 and rent their planes.  It sounds like you need a very structured environment that a flight school will provide.  Enroll at the best flying school in your area, train in their planes and forget flying your Mooney.  By you going out and purchasing IFR training materials before you have an instructor tells me you still don't get it.

 

... no more from me on this topic.

[robert7467]

Tex, you got them mixed up. I have the fly anything CFI, that I later realized, he isn't such a good instructor after all. He us a good pilot, and stick and rudder kind of guy, but now looking back a shitty instructor. As far as instrument, I already have acquired one that is not a time builder in a structured environment. As far as ordering materials, even if I didn't have an instructor, what is wrong with obtaining them and reviewing the materials to get a head start on knowledge? Also as far as recommending that I fly a Cessna for training, why would I not fly the plane that I am comfortable with, and that I own? I am very confident and comfortable with the mooney, and remember in my situation it wasn't the plane, it was the pilot. I have heard a lot of good advice on here, but I don't feel this bit is good. Sell my plane, because I made a pilot error that had nothing to do with the plane, and jump into a Cessna with a 3000 hr engine that sits outside on the ramp. I know the history of my plane, it sits in the hangar, I know that it's well maintained with love. Why would I want to jump in a piece of shit 152 with the paint faded, where you have to pump the breaks and maintenance is questionable. My plane I have done owner assisted annuals, I know how to properly preflight it as a result. I am going to stay in my plane, it's what I am comfortable with. I will take the advice of others, get proper training, and focus on the many issues I need help with. I will also make others aware of the dangers of flying into IMC when they are not properly trained for it. I am starting to think God put me in this situation to help others.

[teethdoc]

I have less hours than you, so I'm definitely not piling it on, but for the sake of learning, how did you get above the cloud layer to start with?

[201er]

Also as far as recommending that I fly a Cessna for training, why would I not fly the plane that I am comfortable with, and that I own? I am very confident and comfortable with the mooney

Because your excessive confidence and comfort has been leading you to do extremely stupid things! Maybe that's the part you should be re-evaluating?

[rob]

Sounds to me like you made a stupid decision when you decided to go into IMC illegally on purpose with your "friend" who clearly has a healthy disregard for the rules. Remember the hazardous attitudes you studied for the written?

If I recall correctly you've only had your ticket a matter of weeks? When were you up with this "friend" who's not a CFI and not instrument rated? Who was PIC? I

One of the reasons we use checklists in aviation is so that a single bad decision can't snowball into a situation beyond what we can handle. You're on that path now, you need to correct it. I don't want to read about you being a statistic.

[PMcClure]

Robert, I was surprised at the turn this thread took. I just spent the last hour reading through it again. I am worried about you friend. Scud running, ice, IMC all with less than 100 hours? This shows a lack of critical decision making skills. Flying a Mooney in weather, cross country is a complicated thing, full of risk and unexpected dangers. Flying around the local field for fun is not the same thing as loading up the family and heading into weather. I change my earlier advice and suggest you not pursue your IFR rather stay close to home in severe clear weather for a long while.

 

Please evaluate what you said you have done on this thread. Besides incriminating, it is downright dangerous. One phrase you said really scares me:  "scud running with ice building but ???no issue???? because lots of airports around." Come on man, that is a frightening statement. Scud running with ice - no problem? 

 

I see a problem. Don't you?  You were lucky with this IMC thing. You need to back up and reassess the real issue. It's not the plane, the weather or the instructor - look in the mirror and get serious about flying or find a better hobby. At the very least, increase your life insurance and keep your family and any passenger away until you can be safe. 

[carusoam]

Robert,

You are missing something...

It's not the choice of planes, instructors or the family you had on board....

You decided to mix flying with clouds. You didn't have to. You still don't have to.

I think God told me to fly on sunny days until I could actively stay away from clouds.

Staying away from small clouds at first then big clouds, then full frontal systems.

His advice made me seak out the IR because, on the East coast, you can't fly away from home and expect to come back on a different day without encountering weather with clouds.

Go fly on sunny days. Your license allows that.

Then fly on days with some high clouds. Then find overcast at 8,000’AGL...

Nothing says you have to or should fly when a ceiling is at or below....(you fill in the blank, pick a big number)

Then re-study the weather sections of the PP or IR curriculum. It will explain how weather works so that you can avoid it.

Then read about JFK, Jr.'s last flight. Typical east coast flying mistake....

Ordinary people make ordinary mistakes. Doing it while flying will kill you.

So much to learn....

Don't moan, whine or complain. Weather is a pilot's challenge, as tight corners are to a driver or squals are to a sailor.

If you load up the firebird with four people and speed into the twisties, you will get an unexpected result the same way.

You have been trained. What you do with the training is up to you...

Use both eyes.

Best regards,

-a-

[Marauder]

Robert, after continuing my reading of your posts, I'm afraid for you. I thought at first you were humbled by the experience, but you continue to believe the training you received saved you and your family. It didn't, you got lucky.

You came hear to confess your tempting of fate and the emotional ramifications of putting your family in harm's way. Most of us tried to console you but also make you aware that putting your head into the mouth of an alligator wasn't a smart thing to do. This forum is populated with pilots who I venture to guess have ten of thousands of hours of flying experience in just Mooneys alone. Most of us have been directly impacted one way or another with an aviation tragedy. Mooney owners are a tight bunch. We may not like each other all of the time, but like a family we do look after each other. We're trying to look out for you...

[PMcClure]

but you continue to believe the training you received saved you and your family. It didn't, you got lucky.

 

Instructors don't bring low time student pilots into IMC for a good reason. They don't belong there. 

[kmyfm20s]

I hate to tell you guys/gals but after reading all his various threads I believe he posts for the reactions. It really seems to be more of a sociology experiment and he is laughing his ass off as he adds fuel to the fire.

I like the staging of his previous post until we get to the grand finale.....I can't land my Mooney after a couple hundred hours of instructed flight and BTW I have the best instructor in the world......The marathon oral and practical exam that I aced......My unexpected first flight with my kid.....Almost killed the family but thank god for my excellent training.

I think the dramatic "178 secounds" video should be renamed "200 hour student to PPL"

This has kept me glued to this thread and truly entertained.

[FlyDave]

I hate to tell you guys/gals but after reading all his various threads I believe he posts for the reactions. It really seems to be more of a sociology experiment and he is laughing his ass off as he adds fuel to the fire.

I like the staging of his previous post until we get to the grand finale.....I can't land my Mooney after a couple hundred hours of instructed flight and BTW I have the best instructor in the world......The marathon oral and practical exam that I aced......My unexpected first flight with my kid.....Almost killed the family but thank god for my excellent training.

I think the dramatic "178 secounds" video should be renamed "200 hour student to PPL"

This has kept me glued to this thread and truly entertained.

+1

i have been thinking the same exact thing since about the 2nd screen of this thread (and after his landing thread) but i gave him the benefit of the dought. i'm almossst wondering if any of his story actually happened.....

[marks]

When people are in panick mode they tend to make very bad decisions, but now that you're on the ground with 20/20 hindsite you should be able to make good decisions.  If you understand and agree that flying anywhere near possible ice is a true plan for death with your airplane, then you've made a little progress.  If you understand and agree that flying above the clouds when you have no training to fly through them is a plan for death, then you've made a little more progress.  If you intend to obey every rule before you leave the ground, then you've made more progress.  But your explanations are so far from normal that if you want to keep flying you're going to have to take a step back and realize that you made such a terrible string of bad decisions that you simply lack the respect for danger that would have kept you out of this situation in the first place.  I fear that if you take such chances as a VFR pilot, that more training would just put you into deeper trouble as an IFR pilot. -  I think you've had your say.  I think you should quit this posting, and with serious humility make your decisions and let us know how things worked out many months from now.  Your desire to continue telling us all about your deadly screw-up won't help anyone.  If you really are humbled by this experience you should now be quiet.  Otherwise I agree that your desire to get a reaction from us may be the big motivation for you.

[rob]

I agree. This must be trolling, albeit an advanced and entertaining form. The way the stories unfold, the elaborate descriptions, the witholding of information until the thread dies down. It follows a pattern, and while it is entertaining, one certainly hopes its not real.

[robert7467]

No its very real. What you guys have seen was an emotional roller coaster. First scared shitless, then maybe never fly again, then the thought process of what I am going to do, then coming to terms that I want to continue on with additional training, thats all.... You guys have seen this entire process unfold, and thats it. I am just going to take it one step at a time, and it will be a long time before I ever take my family back up. I am sure anyone who has ever been through this can chime in. Oh, and btw I like to write..

[robert7467]

First, you're not going to "lose your motor" to shock cooling.

Second, at the risk of abusing a dead equine, I suggest doing a web search on shock cooling. It's considered by many to be a myth.

Here's a link to an article in AVweb: http://www.avweb.com/news/maint/182883-1.html

Third, flying is all about prioritization. Even if shock cooling were true, you had bigger fish to fry.

Good write up. It like my instructor always telling me to pull the power back to 25/26 on climb to "save our only engine". We babied the airplane as far as power settings were concerned, and one of my spark plugs started flowling. With a newley rebuilt engine, the rings did not seat properly on that one cylinder. Told the mechanic how I was running it, and he said to run the hell out of that engine, and climb full power. Upon further research, he was right. I started doing full power, and running it 25/26 and the rings seated and she runs smooth now, and now we are using regular oil.

[PMcClure]

My conscience is clear. N1051K over and out.