Pilot Age and Insurance

[mikey757]

Are any of you already in your mid 70's and still getting reasonable insurance? I'm 66 and wondering if I will be able to fly my J for another 10 years. I wonder how something with fixed gear would change the outlook.

[LANCECASPER]

2 hours ago, mikey757 said:

Are any of you already in your mid 70's and still getting reasonable insurance? I'm 66 and wondering if I will be able to fly my J for another 10 years. I wonder how something with fixed gear would change the outlook.

@Parker_Woodruff could help you with a strategy.

[Schllc]

Quite a few octogenarians flying complex planes around me in south Florida. Two with Aerostars.  If you think retract insurance is hard to get, try an Aerostar!  The four that I can think of offhand only carry liability. They cannot obtain full coverage. 
If I felt capable and safe at that age and I couldn’t get full coverage, I’d go on liability alone as well. 
I don’t want to say the cynical part out loud (for a change), but you all know what I mean. 

[Pinecone]

I agree, talk to Parker.

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I’ll be 69 here shortly. I think I will have an issue here soon. Hope not.

[Hank]

I also know a commercial pilot in his 80s who owns and flies an AeroStar, 300+ hours per year. Staying current and flying often helps a lot with premiums. 

[Shadrach]

80 is several decades out for me, but my experience with my senior pilot friends is that those that have a long term relationship with a specific insurer can expect continued coverage into their golden years until they have a claim, then all bets are off.  My late (RIP) flight instructor flew until he lost his medical in his late 80s or early 90s. He told me that coverage was never an issue.

[Parker_Woodruff]

M20J isn't a problem.  Need a good strategy to ensure you'll be with the best insurance companies.  Can likely have smooth limits for the entire duration.

The market is soft...get with the ideal carrier prior to your renewal where you are 69 years old.

Of course, insurance company underwriting preferences can change, but a few carriers have been very predictable over the past many years that we can make some educated decisions.

[gacoon]

15 hours ago, mikey757 said:

Are any of you already in your mid 70's and still getting reasonable insurance? I'm 66 and wondering if I will be able to fly my J for another 10 years. I wonder how something with fixed gear would change the outlook.

If you have an instrument rating and fly a decent number hours a year (50-60+?) you should have no problem thru your late 70’s

[cliffy]

I'm in my late late 70s and just got renewed but with a $200 kicker over last year

Full coverage but bear in mind I fly 60+ hrs a year and have 19,000+ hrs retract. 

I've been with the same company for years.

I kind of feel (no empirical data ) that advanced licenses (ATP, ME, Type ratings ) and

lots of hrs helps along with currency beyond 10 hrs a year. Quite frankly, if you're not

flying more than 50 hrs a year when over 70 you need to rethink doing it. 

Not only is flying ability a fragile commodity that dies away from low use but the thought process 

doesn't recover as fast after a layoff. Cognitive processes start to slide after 60 or so. You can't

avoid it.  

Set your own reasonable limits (for me its now day VFR only)  and stick to them.

One might look around at some of us "older" pilots and our "personal limits" and

see a trend in limiting our liability after decades of experience. There is a reason.

Ya' all be safe out there. 

[Jackk]

Insurance is optional 

 

 BWI gets some good rates too

[Parker_Woodruff]

11 hours ago, cliffy said:

Quite frankly, if you're not

flying more than 50 hrs a year when over 70 you need to rethink doing it. 

Not only is flying ability a fragile commodity that dies away from low use but the thought process 

doesn't recover as fast after a layoff. Cognitive processes start to slide after 60 or so. You can't

avoid it.  

 

Assuming the pilot is healthy and able to meet Airman Certification Standards, I say 1 hour per year, minimum, for every year of pilot age.

 

[brad]

Just turned 77.  At 74 company I was with for years said they would want me out of a retrac.  Military pilot, 6000 hours, 1600 in Mooney, fly with CAP.  Went to AVEMCO.  Only changes in guidelines were an annual physical and an annual FR in the Mooney.  Price actually went down this year.

[CL605]

Turning 70 shortly. 22,800 TT, 20,000 complex retract, 48 in the M20J, 45 of that in the last 12 months, aircraft is hangared. Recurrent training twice a year for a Challenger 605, 1st class medical, excellent health. $115,000 hull, 1 million liability, 100k per pax was just under $3000 through Parker's company. I'm not complaining, and I trust that is a good deal in this market, but I will note that is the most I've ever paid for a single engine retract. The idea that a chain smoking, pot bellied 40 year old with 10% of the experience might get a better rate is... interesting. And out of anyone's control. No one promised us life would be fair.

[SARNorm]

I would have to disagree that cognitive processes automatically slide after 60. I know many very sharp pilots in their 70's, and my pilot father-in-law was 93 when he hung it up as a current instrumented rated pilot. A healthy lifestyle, aerobic fitness, and using your brain in complex ways go a long ways toward keeping your ticket as your age increases. Yes, genetics play a big role also . . . but if you are round in the belly, on ED meds, and watch a lot of TV -then your aerobic fitness (and general blood flow to your brain and other parts of your body) might be questionable. I'm not judging, just stating facts - so no attacks please.

[Parker_Woodruff]

3 hours ago, CL605 said:

Turning 70 shortly. 22,800 TT, 20,000 complex retract, 48 in the M20J, 45 of that in the last 12 months, aircraft is hangared. Recurrent training twice a year for a Challenger 605, 1st class medical, excellent health. $115,000 hull, 1 million liability, 100k per pax was just under $3000 through Parker's company. I'm not complaining, and I trust that is a good deal in this market, but I will note that is the most I've ever paid for a single engine retract. The idea that a chain smoking, pot bellied 40 year old with 10% of the experience might get a better rate is... interesting. And out of anyone's control. No one promised us life would be fair.

FA44 is what's hurting you right now

[cliffy]

There are always exceptions to any basic "rule" but taken in aggregate cognitive issues start to decline for most everyone after

60-65,  some more than others, some way less than others but slide they do.  

Many take no notice!

[CL605]

45 minutes ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

FA44 is what's hurting you right now

Hi Parker,

Working with your company was a pleasure, and my curiosity is genuine. Airnav shows FA44 as 3600'x150'. In reality it is 4380' long for takeoff, 3600' for landing, and 200' wide. It is lit, and in great shape. Is it merely the fact that it is grass that is hurting me? I've based Vikings, Barons, Twin Commanders, a Sundowner and a Cessna 401 out of FA44 without noticing a bump in rates. Again, I trust you gave me the best rate available, I'm just curious why it is affected by the aircraft base.

Thank you in advance for any insight you can offer.

[Will.iam]

Did i read your mooney time correctly at 48 hours? My insurance went down dramatically after i got the the first 100 hours on my mooney. It was like they couldn’t see all my countless thousands of hours for the glaring lack of time in type. 

[Shadrach]

5 hours ago, SARNorm said:

I would have to disagree that cognitive processes automatically slide after 60. I know many very sharp pilots in their 70's, and my pilot father-in-law was 93 when he hung it up as a current instrumented rated pilot. A healthy lifestyle, aerobic fitness, and using your brain in complex ways go a long ways toward keeping your ticket as your age increases. Yes, genetics play a big role also . . . but if you are round in the belly, on ED meds, and watch a lot of TV -then your aerobic fitness (and general blood flow to your brain and other parts of your body) might be questionable. I'm not judging, just stating facts - so no attacks please.

It’s relative. I think cognitive ability degrades with age for everyone.  When it becomes noticeable may differ. Folks with high baseline functionality may be more functional at 75 than some are at 50, but there is no escaping Father Time. That being said I know several octogenarians that are still very competent pilots.

[N201MKTurbo]

What? Who are you people? Get off my lawn…

[Parker_Woodruff]

18 hours ago, CL605 said:

Hi Parker,

Working with your company was a pleasure, and my curiosity is genuine. Airnav shows FA44 as 3600'x150'. In reality it is 4380' long for takeoff, 3600' for landing, and 200' wide. It is lit, and in great shape. Is it merely the fact that it is grass that is hurting me? I've based Vikings, Barons, Twin Commanders, a Sundowner and a Cessna 401 out of FA44 without noticing a bump in rates. Again, I trust you gave me the best rate available, I'm just curious why it is affected by the aircraft base.

Thank you in advance for any insight you can offer.

It's the soft field - the length isn't a problem at all.  And it's not even that you're facing a big surcharge with the company that insures you now due to the soft field.  It's that the most competitive companies we regularly use for vintage Mooneys didn't want to quote the soft field this year.

If I change your airport to MLB and put you at 100 in the model this is a sub-$2500 discussion, including Florida's 1% state mandated premium surcharge (I just ran the numbers with a different company, but with these changes).

[DavePage]

On 12/15/2025 at 3:14 AM, mikey757 said:

Are any of you already in your mid 70's and still getting reasonable insurance?

Ha !  Thats an oxymoron !  I'm mid 77 and my insurance is still reasonable, although I'm only insured for about half my hull value.  I got my PPL in 80', and rates have slowly increased.  I think I'm in for a rude awakening in about 2 1/2 years.  Also, I've read that the insurance industry (property wise) has had an exceptionally good couple of years, so I'm sure that rates will be reflected and decrease.  (LOL)

[Parker_Woodruff]

1 hour ago, DavePage said:

Ha !  Thats an oxymoron !  I'm mid 77 and my insurance is still reasonable, although I'm only insured for about half my hull value. 

Careful - it's easier to have an aircraft be a constructive total loss if underinsured...

[Shadrach]

19 hours ago, Parker_Woodruff said:

It's the soft field - the length isn't a problem at all.  And it's not even that you're facing a big surcharge with the company that insures you now due to the soft field.  It's that the most competitive companies we regularly use for vintage Mooneys didn't want to quote the soft field this year.

If I change your airport to MLB and put you at 100 in the model this is a sub-$2500 discussion, including Florida's 1% state mandated premium surcharge (I just ran the numbers with a different company, but with these changes).

I’ve never had an insurer ask about nor for bid soft field operations. Indeed I called. Years ago, I called my insurer to verify that soft field operations were not excluded. Are his increased rates strictly due to underwriting making note that his base of operations is a soft field? 

That’s an interesting take on exposure versus proficiency.
Sort of like saying:

“we think soft fields represent an increased risk so we prefer that our insured’s don’t get too proficient and only conduct operations a fields where they can’t verify conditions with a takeoff”