Midair collision with fatalities in Tucson

[N201MKTurbo]

So the guy I know who used to work for AeroGuard knows both people in the Cessna. He said they said that the Lancair passed them overhead, their prop hit the tail and flipped the Lancair inverted. He indicated this all happened at about 200 AGL.
 

That would be horrible to watch.

[1980Mooney]

5 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

So the guy I know who used to work for AeroGuard knows both people in the Cessna. He said they said that the Lancair passed them overhead, their prop hit the tail and flipped the Lancair inverted. He indicated this all happened at about 200 AGL.
 

That would be horrible to watch.

Does your friend know if there was any communication of intentions by either plane on the CTAF?  And if the AeroGuard (former Embry-Riddle) plane has a moving map showing traffic?

[N201MKTurbo]

He also said the Cessna was doing touch and gos. So if this is true, it looks like the Lancair is way more at fault here. Who would overtake an airplane doing touch and gos doing a low pass. That is nuts.

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Does your friend know if there was any communication of intentions by either plane on the CTAF?  And if the AeroGuard (former Embry-Riddle) plane has a moving map showing traffic?

I don’t know the answers.

[AH-1 Cobra Pilot]

On 2/20/2025 at 10:21 AM, 1980Mooney said:

We don't know what was said on UNICOM (if the 172 announced intentions to do a T&G or to get off the runway) but clearly the faster Lancair overran the slower 172 ahead.

That is a pet peeve of mine; not clearly announcing your intentions.  Always say "Full Stop", "Low Pass", or "Touch and Go" when you make any/all of your pattern position calls.

Edited February 22 by AH-1 Cobra Pilot

[N201MKTurbo]

Just to be clear, everything I said here is hear say.

[ragedracer1977]

This was posted by a pilot who got buzzed by the lancair on his previous go-around.  Adsb data backs it up if you want to see for yourself,  and shows the Lancair at 140-150kts over the centerline at maybe 200agl almost to the departure end.

 

 

[stlcg]

Sounds like the guys temper got the better of him.

[Pinecone]

On 2/20/2025 at 4:08 PM, PeteMc said:

Rather than using "Right" (or Left), it might be better to refer to the Offset/Upwind as always the opposite side of the Runway from the Downwind.  This way people won't just remember "to the Right" and move to the Right and start climbing under a Right Downwind. 

Then you have to make a call.
I said to offset right, as that makes it easier to keep the runway and other airplane in sight.  If it is a right pattern, you need to not just climb unrestricted, due to the traffic above as you said.  But if you doing this from final, everyone should be at pattern altitude, giving you some space to climb, but stay under them.  And, you can do this pretty close in to the runway.

[Pinecone]

On 2/21/2025 at 8:33 AM, N201MKTurbo said:

It is hard to imagine why someone would delay on the runway. I was taught at an uncontrolled field that you don't take the runway until you are ready to take off. If nothing else you have a much better view of what's going on at the hold short line than you do on the runway.

Agreed.  I don't want to be on the runway without any ability to look behind unless I am moving.

[1980Mooney]

Here is a great composite that shows the Lancair, the first flight school 172 in the pattern that got buzzed twice by the Lancair, the second flight school 172 in the pattern (the collision 172) and the other planes in the pattern (an SR-20 that was in the pattern, a twin taking off, a Caravan taking off, etc.)

• The first 172 was initially on a collision course with the Lancair when the Lancair made a bizarre 360 entry to enter the pattern while flying directly against aircraft in the pattern at about 160 kts - it put the Lancair on a collision course 100 ft above the first 172.
• The first 172 was buzzed a second time when the Lancair passed about 200 ft above the 172 while it was touching down - the Lancair was accelerating from 110 to 140 kts. down the centerline.

It is inconceivable that Lancair was not aware that there was other traffic in the pattern - especially student traffic doing touch and go's.

That is all the more reason to give the students space at an uncontrolled airport.

 

[PeteMc]

6 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I said to offset right, as that makes it easier to keep the runway and other airplane in sight. 

Totally agree it is easier to see the other plane if it is out your left window.  Just pointing out that not all Downwinds are on the Left.  And not all Cubs, etc. will hear your call. 

 

Edited February 23 by PeteMc

[Hank]

1 hour ago, PeteMc said:

Totally agree it is easier to see the other plane if it is out your left window.  Just pointing out that not all Downwinds are on the Left.  And not all Cubs, etc. will hear your call. 

 

Even with Right Pattern, I'd still sidestep to the right. Only need to move far enough to see the runway, should be well inside pattern distance. Then climb out and away, re-enter and try again.

[EricJ]

8 minutes ago, Hank said:

Even with Right Pattern, I'd still sidestep to the right. Only need to move far enough to see the runway, should be well inside pattern distance. Then climb out and away, re-enter and try again.

+1.   I think the main reasons to deviate from this would be if there is an active LZ, parallel runway, or helicopter operations nearby on the right.    If there is a parallel runway on your left, the only practical way to deviate is to the right into the downwind side.    On my home field (DVT) with parallel runways and a tower, I've been told a couple times to go around and deviate into the downind side if there was traffic on the runway.

 

[201er]

23 hours ago, AH-1 Cobra Pilot said:

Always say "Full Stop", "Low Pass", or "Touch and Go" when you make any/all of your pattern position calls.

No

[Pinecone]

18 hours ago, PeteMc said:

Totally agree it is easier to see the other plane if it is out your left window.  Just pointing out that not all Downwinds are on the Left.  And not all Cubs, etc. will hear your call. 

 

That is a factor.  But how far do you have to offset, versus the traffic on downwind?  And if you stay low, you should be no factor to downwind traffic.

[EricJ]

Apparenty there was video as well as recordings of the CTAF.    The preliminary is attached at the bottom of this article.

https://www.azfamily.com/2025/03/14/security-cams-capture-moment-impact-deadly-mid-air-collision-marana