Is a paint correction/ceramic coating worth it?

[AndreiC]

Okay, I've narrowed things down to two choices. One option is to go to a guy who is highly recommended in Green Bay. Works in his own large heated hangar, it is a well-established business which mostly does bizjets but wants to get more customers by penetrating into the smaller planes market. Recommended by my mechanic. But it is quite expensive -- 5 AMU for doing the whole plane with some fancy ceramic coating which should last 5 years +. This guy seemed to know what he is doing, he explained to me all the details of what he would do, did a test patch which came out very nice, etc.

The other choice is a mobile guy recommended by the mechanics at Poplar Grove. He travels for these jobs in his C150, and works in your own hangar. I don't know what kind of polishing he would do, and what kind of ceramic coating he uses. The Poplar Grove people said they had seen some of his work and that it was good, but that's all I know. 1.5-1.8 AMU. Since my hangar is not heated it'll have to wait until April or May. 

What would you guys choose? Really could use some help deciding... Thanks.

[Sabremech]

Hello Andrei,

See if you can get a test patch done from the guy who travels. Have him explain his process then you can make a decision based off of seeing and hearing the processes of both.

David

[Echo]

Wow.  I just can not comprehend spending 1500-5k on a guy to polish my plane.  Thanks for motivating me to spend $50 bucks to purchase compound and waffle pads to do my plane myself.  Honestly my plane looks great from 10'.  Really not a high priority for me, but an excuse to fire up the heater and hang out with my plane.  

[Pinecone]

That works, until you buff the paint off the rivets and panel edges.  Then you are looking at a paint job. 

[Echo]

9 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

That works, until you buff the paint off the rivets and panel edges.  Then you are looking at a paint job. 

Buffing is not rocket science.  Attention to detail better than spreading fear?

[philiplane]

Max Easy works very well, lasts a year or so, and is incredibly easy to apply. I use it on the planes and cars with great results. Even on the truck's chrome wheels, which now stay clean after hundreds of miles. It stays slippery so bugs don't stick on leading edges. The few that do get splattered wipe off with a damp cloth. For older paint, it's best to buff it first to remove contamination. You don't have to go crazy though, just clean it up. For newer paint, a good washing, and clay bar treatment is best. Max Easy is the best value paint sealant there is. 

 

 

[EricJ]

16 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

That works, until you buff the paint off the rivets and panel edges.  Then you are looking at a paint job. 

Or a light touch-up.  Usually you know when the paint is getting that thin, though, and can avoid such things.

Touch-ups are pretty common to deal with rock chips or the normal erosion that happens on the leading edges and elsewhere.   Being able to blend a touch-up well does require some skill, but if it's part of a buffing/correction process it's pretty doable.    On many older airplanes it gets to be a constant thing and people just don't bother.   You can still do a nice polish job and get a good fifty-foot or twenty-foot finish even if there are some chips and rivet heads poking out.   I think of it as "patina".   People pay a lot for those kinds of effects. 

[Pinecone]

7 hours ago, Echo said:

Buffing is not rocket science.  Attention to detail better than spreading fear?

No, but I have seen several instances in cars where people caused serious paint damage.

Just pointing out the risk.

[M20F]

9 hours ago, Echo said:

Buffing is not rocket science.  Attention to detail better than spreading fear?

Buffing is not rocket science.  Polishing is rocket science.  Words have some very specific meanings here (IMC and IFR are kinda of the same but different).  I am going to regret this but here we go.

1.)  Single stage paint is a layer of paint and a protective coating.  Clear coat is a transparent layer put over a base color.

Paint looks bad primarily due to scratches or oxidation.  

To fix bad looking paint you need to remove oxidation and scratches, there is no other solution other than remove clear coat or paint.  You do this by cutting, sanding, polishing, etc.  You are taking an abrasive and removing material to get a flat defect free surface.  

1. Determine how think the paint/coating is if insufficient you need to strip/paint.  You can find a decent paint/depth gauge on Amazon for $300
   1. If you have a lot of depth do whatever
   2. If you don't care do whatever
      1. I used Comet powder to start buffing out the boot/trunk of my 71 MGB.  It was red and not original.  Whoever shot it (single stage) sprayed well and deep.  I could have put an angle grinder to it and had paint left.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Everything above this line is dangerous.  You can seriously mess up your paint with heat, abrasives, etc.  If your true goal is museum quality finish you want somebody who absolutely knows their stuff.  I can jet a carb but if I want to race Reno I am hiring a pro to jet my carb.  For an airplane I would never recommend a paint correction (cut/polish/sand/etc.).  You don't get up that close, a plane with decent paint and some wax looks good at 200 yards.  If I am flying closer than 200yds to your plane we are very "good" friends...

Once you have good paint the key is to protect it.  I like Jescar Powerlock.  Put that on.  Wash it often with a neutral PH (won't strip wax) cleaner as often as you can.  After first wash following Jescar put some wax on (you don't need everywhere mainly leading edges).  I like Collinite 845.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The above paragraph is where everyone goes wrong.  I can make a piece of paint look perfect but that is for TODAY.  You cannot keep going back to sand, cut, polish, etc.  You run out of paint.  The key is to wash frequently with good clean mitts/rags and a grit guard.  Reapply wax/etc.  It is about maintenance more than anything.  Polishing should and be a ONE time thing.

I do a pretty good job keeping the 71 MG looking good.  My Mooney it looks great from 200 yards.

READ THIS - IF you spent $15K+ on paint recently please PLEASE PLEASE do not be stupid.  You had enough money to spend $15K to paint a toy so you are not poor.  Paint correction is really hard, I do not recommend it (polish/sand/cut) for a plane any more than ceramic coating (different topic) but if you feel the need for it, best to hire a professional.  Washing (very clean mit/rags use grit guard in bucket) and waxing/buffing do that all day long.  Abrasives though is in fact rocket science.

 

 

 

[AndreiC]

I think it’s important for every one to know their limitations. I know that if I do it I will mess up somewhere, and that defect, while probably invisible for everyone else, will bother me every single time. OCD, I guess… so I’ll let someone else mess it up, and then *I* won’t notice it!

More seriously though, just applying a protectant won’t do it for my plane. The difference between the patch that the guy buffed out professionally and the rest of the paint is quite clear. The reflections are way more obvious. So the fading, oxidation, and dirt have to come out before any other coating will be applied. And I’m not doing it for the reasons mentioned above. 
 

Here is a picture showing the difference. Notice how easily you can see the hangar truss reflecting in the polished area, but not in the surrounding parts  

[Echo]

Not worth it to me to see my hanger truss in m paint.  I wouldn't pay 5 grand for it.  You had a big patch of your wing done so Based on your self described OCD Iit appears you are in.  Enjoy your reflections.  Scott

[Marc_B]

A big part of ceramic coating is protecting the surface and also making it easy to clean bugs, dirt and debris easier so that you're also less likely to scratch the surface with cleaning.

Of course we all pick and choose what’s important to us or not. Plenty of pilots follow minimal and limited maintenance that’s only geared towards basic airworthy…some are geared towards showroom quality or modern functionality…and lots scattered somewhere in between. To each their own.

…there are plenty of people who think it’s crazy to even own an aircraft!  Fortunately we all know better! 

[T. Peterson]

On 12/4/2024 at 9:23 AM, exM20K said:

I paid somewhat less than that, and I am glad to have done it.

Painting a plane is not only expensive, it involves significant downtime, so putting that off for several years with a touch-up worked very well for me.

my paint was generally in good shape, but it was coming off some rivets and edges. If the shop says your paint can be restored, I’d do it.

-dan

I think I am wrestling with that commandment about coveting!!

Beautiful airplane!!

[T. Peterson]

15 hours ago, M20F said:

Buffing is not rocket science.  Polishing is rocket science.  Words have some very specific meanings here (IMC and IFR are kinda of the same but different).  I am going to regret this but here we go.

1.)  Single stage paint is a layer of paint and a protective coating.  Clear coat is a transparent layer put over a base color.

Paint looks bad primarily due to scratches or oxidation.  

To fix bad looking paint you need to remove oxidation and scratches, there is no other solution other than remove clear coat or paint.  You do this by cutting, sanding, polishing, etc.  You are taking an abrasive and removing material to get a flat defect free surface.  

1. Determine how think the paint/coating is if insufficient you need to strip/paint.  You can find a decent paint/depth gauge on Amazon for $300
   1. If you have a lot of depth do whatever
   2. If you don't care do whatever
      1. I used Comet powder to start buffing out the boot/trunk of my 71 MGB.  It was red and not original.  Whoever shot it (single stage) sprayed well and deep.  I could have put an angle grinder to it and had paint left.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Everything above this line is dangerous.  You can seriously mess up your paint with heat, abrasives, etc.  If your true goal is museum quality finish you want somebody who absolutely knows their stuff.  I can jet a carb but if I want to race Reno I am hiring a pro to jet my carb.  For an airplane I would never recommend a paint correction (cut/polish/sand/etc.).  You don't get up that close, a plane with decent paint and some wax looks good at 200 yards.  If I am flying closer than 200yds to your plane we are very "good" friends...

Once you have good paint the key is to protect it.  I like Jescar Powerlock.  Put that on.  Wash it often with a neutral PH (won't strip wax) cleaner as often as you can.  After first wash following Jescar put some wax on (you don't need everywhere mainly leading edges).  I like Collinite 845.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The above paragraph is where everyone goes wrong.  I can make a piece of paint look perfect but that is for TODAY.  You cannot keep going back to sand, cut, polish, etc.  You run out of paint.  The key is to wash frequently with good clean mitts/rags and a grit guard.  Reapply wax/etc.  It is about maintenance more than anything.  Polishing should and be a ONE time thing.

I do a pretty good job keeping the 71 MG looking good.  My Mooney it looks great from 200 yards.

READ THIS - IF you spent $15K+ on paint recently please PLEASE PLEASE do not be stupid.  You had enough money to spend $15K to paint a toy so you are not poor.  Paint correction is really hard, I do not recommend it (polish/sand/cut) for a plane any more than ceramic coating (different topic) but if you feel the need for it, best to hire a professional.  Washing (very clean mit/rags use grit guard in bucket) and waxing/buffing do that all day long.  Abrasives though is in fact rocket science.

 

 

 

That was quite an education. Thank you!

[Pinecone]

To expand a bit, single stage paints are color and carrier all in one.

The "protective coating" is the paint.  In the days of lacquer, you needed to buff the paint to get a shine.  Enamels dried slower so would level and be shiny without extra work.

Clear coat paint systems have the color sprayed on and allowed to dry/cure, then a clear paint is sprayed on top to give the shine and protects the color coat.  In the auto world, many systems use water based color coat to reduce VOC emissions.

[phxcobraz]

Most of that money is going to be in paint correction prior to applying sealant. I did a full correction and sealant on one nicer car years ago(E92 M3) and it was great.

For the airplane I just did the buffing/polishing/correction work myself and it shined up real nice for paint done in 1970. I couldn’t justify the cost of a full sealant on something that has plenty of leading edge chips and dings. 
I’ve buffed/polished it twice in the 4yrs I’ve owned it, and applied a spray sealant. It looks fantastic from 20ft, except for the leading edge rock chips. 
Whenever I wash now I use Optimum No-Rinse wash and wax, then Optimum OptiSeal as a drying agent on each panel and it reapplies that sealant each time but it doesn’t really last between washes like a true ceramic coating does.

If I had newer paint I’d absolutely spring for the cost of ceramic coating.