New Navigator & GPSS

[bigmo]

Looking seriously at a SUPER clean pre-J that has pretty much everything I need/want. Aircraft currently has a functioning KLN90B, which I honestly have touched in 20+ years. It's not a crisis to replace, but want to get an idea what I'm looking at $. Autopilot is an STEC-30. Everything else in the panel is perfectly functional.

As far as I can tell, I need this:

GPS175 (should fit in the 2" height abandoned by the GLN90B

While I'm doing it, I'd really like to have GPSS. There are some cheap/used options fr the STEC, but if I spend a bit more, I can step up to a single G5.

Add a G5 (attitude)

GAD29 (interface for the G5 to STEC)

 

Am I missing anything?

Hardware is about $7300. I'm assuming about $3000 install. 

Sound right-ish? I could just do the 175 and call it done, but feel GPSS adds SO much value, especially if weather is not cooperating. I personally hate flying procedure holds by hand or with the heading bug.

 

A final option I have not looked into is just living with the KLN90B. The unit looks & functions like new. I think if I decided to live with the 90B, all I need is a cheap STEC 901 GPSS roll steer device (used is probably the only option). Will the old 90B instruct the STEC to fly a whole procedure like I think it would?

 

 

[N201MKTurbo]

I think you need to make the G5 an HSI. 

[ArtVandelay]

I would do dual G5s, a G5 HSI will give you GPSS functionality.
I think your installation cost will be more.
New GPS will require new antenna, which will require removing interior panels, with 2 G5s I think $15k is a good estimate.

[McMooney]

will you fly it ifr?

if not kln90b + garmin pilot / ff  + roll steering = win

heck you can probably still fly it ifr only missing lpv approaches 

I love my bird, but, spending $$$$$ for her to sit in a hangar 99% of the time is really starting to make me feel bad.

that being said i made a call just this morning to get more avionics quotes

 

[bigmo]

Yes, definitely will see IMC.

 

Looks like the G5 HSI with GPS kit (and magnetometer) is $3700. $4700 for the navigator. $8400 materials. I can't see more than $4K for install even though the HSI is a bit more complex. Seems like the best use of $12K in the aircraft and will do everything I could possibly want.

[PeteMc]

Does the plane have ADS-B OUT?  There will come a time you may really need it and it will become an issue if you don't already have ADS-B Out.  So maybe a GNX375 instead of the GPS175.

And I'd seriously consider looking at the GI275 over the G5.  Much more robust and capable unit.  

 

EDIT: Corrected my GTX375 to the correct GNX375  (Thanks @LANCECASPER)

 

Edited August 14, 2024 by PeteMc

[McMooney]

14 minutes ago, bigmo said:

Yes, definitely will see IMC.

 

Looks like the G5 HSI with GPS kit (and magnetometer) is $3700. $4700 for the navigator. $8400 materials. I can't see more than $4K for install even though the HSI is a bit more complex. Seems like the best use of $12K in the aircraft and will do everything I could possibly want.

so i just had my g5s and gnc355 put in, if you are going to pay for the hsi you might as well spend the extra to get the attitude indicator, Most of the work to install the g5 is in the magnetometer, gad 29b/d, canbus and gad13/temp.    like seriously, your a&p could  install the stand alone attitude indicator in a couple hours.

as for the gi275, i chose to go g5 as i'll eventually upgrade to the g3x which was built for the g5 system

 

 

 

[PT20J]

If you get a GI 275 you have more upgrade possibilities in the future. I believe that the GI 275 can also replace the attitude indicator for the S-TEC, so you could get a GI 275 HSI now and add a second GI 275 PFD later to replace the AI and keep the S-TEC. Then you would be set if you ever want to replace the S-TEC with a GFC 500. The G5 makes the most sense if you have no autopilot, or are installing a GFC 500 or as a standby for a G3X. The GI 275 is designed to work with legacy autopilots as well as the GFC 500.

[MikeOH]

5 hours ago, bigmo said:

Yes, definitely will see IMC.

 

... I can't see more than $4K for install even though the HSI is a bit more complex....

I might be so bold as to suggest you need your vision checked; at the least, make sure your friendly avionics installer 'sees' through the same rose colored glasses.  It's his vision that's going to count (your dollars)

[LANCECASPER]

6 hours ago, PeteMc said:

So maybe a GTX375 instead of the GPS175.

That would be a GNX375. 

https://www.garmin.com/en-US/p/577174

[Ragsf15e]

19 hours ago, PT20J said:

If you get a GI 275 you have more upgrade possibilities in the future. I believe that the GI 275 can also replace the attitude indicator for the S-TEC, so you could get a GI 275 HSI now and add a second GI 275 PFD later to replace the AI and keep the S-TEC. Then you would be set if you ever want to replace the S-TEC with a GFC 500. The G5 makes the most sense if you have no autopilot, or are installing a GFC 500 or as a standby for a G3X. The GI 275 is designed to work with legacy autopilots as well as the GFC 500.

The stec works with any adi as it’s rate based, so the g5s would be fine (but i bet you know that). There’s more panel cutting with the g5s though, so maybe gi275 makes sense?

My thought is if you’re doing the hsi, do both!  You could also likely remove your vacuum system and get more UL.

@bigmoIf you decide to go with stec 901 gpss, pm me with an offer. I have a used one i removed when i installed dual g5s for my stec.

[PT20J]

27 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

The stec works with any adi as it’s rate based, so the g5s would be fine (but i bet you know that). There’s more panel cutting with the g5s though, so maybe gi275 makes sense?

My thought is if you’re doing the hsi, do both!  You could also likely remove your vacuum system and get more UL.

@bigmoIf you decide to go with stec 901 gpss, pm me with an offer. I have a used one i removed when i installed dual g5s for my stec.

Good point. Does your 55 have a flight director? I was thinking that you’d need the GI 275 to make the FD work, but I think the FD is optional on the S-Tec 55. 

[Aerodon]

I have been around this circle so many times.  The single GPS / GPXComm / GPSTxpdr are all interesting devices and have their place in the market.

But if you want to interface your new GPS to the autopilot (and you do), it always starts getting complicated with relays and annunciators etc.  (More install $$).  And when you are finished you will have maybe a small improvement in value.

If you get a combined GPS/Nav/Com, it is a much nicer interface to use and install, and if you have a nice KX155 to sell, the increase in cost for the combined unit is nit that much, and the installed value is higher.  And you are 'more ready' for future electronic displays and autopilots.

 

Aerodon

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Niko182]

The upgrade creep is real.

Step 1: Start with a gps175 and a G5.
Step 2: Move to a gps175 and 2 G5's.
Step 3: Might as well do a GNX375 and 2 G5's.
Step 4: Actually the GI275s offer way more so GNX375 and 2 GI275s
Step 5: A gtn would actually be better than the GNX/GPS series So now 2 GI275s, a GTN650, and a GTX345.
Step 6: I actually would prefer a larger screen so a 2 GI275s, a GTN750, and a GTX345.
...
...
Second last Step: Think to yourself, "what type of moron would spend all that money on this equipment, All I wanted was a damn WAAS GPS."
Last Step: Spend "all that money."

Ask me how I know.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, PT20J said:

Good point. Does your 55 have a flight director? I was thinking that you’d need the GI 275 to make the FD work, but I think the FD is optional on the S-Tec 55. 

I’m not sure about the stec-55, but the OP (and I) have an stec-30, so no flight director.  The G5(s) or gi275(s) just provide heading and gpss, nothing else.  Either would be good.

[PT20J]

2 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

I’m not sure about the stec-55, but the OP (and I) have an stec-30, so no flight director.  The G5(s) or gi275(s) just provide heading and gpss, nothing else.  Either would be good.

Ah, my bad. Somehow I mistakenly thought it was a 55. I just reread the original post and I have no idea why I thought it was a 55 since it clearly says 30. Sorry for the confusion.

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, Niko182 said:

I actually would prefer a larger screen so a 2 GI275s, a GTN750, and a GTX345.

I seriously considered a GTN750Xi, but didn't think it was worth it.  I keep my GTN in Default Nav and rarely look at the Map on either GPS.  If I got the 750 I still would probably not gotten Approach Plates for it as it would just feel unnatural to look over to the center of the panel for the plate.  So I'd still be looking at my ForeFlight screen.  

They are great boxes, I just didn't see it as "greater" than the 650.  Suppose if my GNC ever dies, I'd look at maybe moving the 650 to the #2 spot and putting in a 750... But I might reach the same conclusion and just put in another GNC or get a second 650. 

Maybe by the time I need something there will be a GTN 9/850 with DME/DME Nav in addition to GPS and VOR. 

 

[jetdriven]

On 8/13/2024 at 1:39 PM, bigmo said:

Looking seriously at a SUPER clean pre-J that has pretty much everything I need/want. Aircraft currently has a functioning KLN90B, which I honestly have touched in 20+ years. It's not a crisis to replace, but want to get an idea what I'm looking at $. Autopilot is an STEC-30. Everything else in the panel is perfectly functional.

As far as I can tell, I need this:

GPS175 (should fit in the 2" height abandoned by the GLN90B

While I'm doing it, I'd really like to have GPSS. There are some cheap/used options fr the STEC, but if I spend a bit more, I can step up to a single G5.

Add a G5 (attitude)

GAD29 (interface for the G5 to STEC)

 

Am I missing anything?

Hardware is about $7300. I'm assuming about $3000 install. 

Sound right-ish? I could just do the 175 and call it done, but feel GPSS adds SO much value, especially if weather is not cooperating. I personally hate flying procedure holds by hand or with the heading bug.

 

A final option I have not looked into is just living with the KLN90B. The unit looks & functions like new. I think if I decided to live with the 90B, all I need is a cheap STEC 901 GPSS roll steer device (used is probably the only option). Will the old 90B instruct the STEC to fly a whole procedure like I think it would?

 

 

Really the only game in town anymore is one of those 2 inch navigators from Garmin or a used GTN650 or GTN750. It’s not even good money to spend on a Garmin 430W anymore, and especially that goes true for anything before that. First of all Parts and supplies and repairs are extremely limited so your swapping out boxes all the time. And then eventually you’re gonna change it anyway. 

[Pinecone]

16 hours ago, PeteMc said:

If I got the 750 I still would probably not gotten Approach Plates for it as it would just feel unnatural to look over to the center of the panel for the plate.  So I'd still be looking at my ForeFlight screen.

I look at having charts on my 750 as a backup in case of issues with my iPad.

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

I look at having charts on my 750 as a backup in case of issues with my iPad.

FF lets me put it on 3 devices. I have my charts on ipad, but also load them on my phone (and another) as a backup.

[PeteMc]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

I look at having charts on my 750 as a backup in case of issues with my iPad.

That's one option.  I have one iPad that's dedicated to flying (Air) and one that was for work, but has ForeFlight loaded (Pro). 

And then FltPlan Go and Avare on my Android as a backup to the backup.   (Really wish ForeFlight would make a "Lite" version for Android for continuity.)

 

[Pinecone]

I actually have them loaded on my phone.  Plus iPad Mini.  Plus GTN-750Xi.  Plus G3X Touch. 

Maybe overkill.