From Frustration to Flight: A Renewed Avionics Upgrade Journey for my 252

[shawnd]

After an absolutely frustrating attempt to upgrade a few instruments at Cannon Avionics at KAWO for the past year, I am ready to start fresh. The initial work included installing three Garmin GI-275s, a used GTN 650xi, and replacing the GMA347 with a GMA35c. However, Cannon's poor quality of work and leaving my airplane in disrepair led me to see the silver lining: a complete upgrade of all the avionics! I flew my airplane this past weekend to KPAE and love the experience with Regal Air so far. Some may know them as Crown Aviation. This is how a professional shop is supposed to be run. I will use this thread to post updates on the work as well as ... pictures of course!

Here's what my panel originally looked like:

 

Here's the proposed new panel:

After a lot of deliberation and the already paid-for GI275s, I decided to go with G500TXi with the GI-275 as its standby. I will have the EIS functionality be provided by an additional GI-275 instead of being integrated with the G500 TXi. The GTN750 will remain but will be coupled with the GMA35c. A new-to-me GTN 650xi will replace the KX-165 and GFC-500 will swap out the KFC-150 system. A new customized panel will be built by EA Panels. And the good old rocker switches will be swapped out with Carling ones from the M20U based on recommendations from the Maxwell folks. Taking the opportunity to redo the interior panels and seats etc. Can't wait 

[donkaye]

3 hours ago, shawnd said:

After an absolutely frustrating attempt to upgrade a few instruments at Cannon Avionics at KAWO for the past year, I am ready to start fresh. The initial work included installing three Garmin GI-275s, a used GTN 650xi, and replacing the GMA347 with a GMA35c. However, Cannon's poor quality of work and leaving my airplane in disrepair led me to see the silver lining: a complete upgrade of all the avionics! I flew my airplane this past weekend to KPAE and love the experience with Regal Air so far. Some may know them as Crown Aviation. This is how a professional shop is supposed to be run. I will use this thread to post updates on the work as well as ... pictures of course!

Here's what my panel originally looked like:

 

Here's the proposed new panel:

After a lot of deliberation and the already paid-for GI275s, I decided to go with G500TXi with the GI-275 as its standby. I will have the EIS functionality be provided by an additional GI-275 instead of being integrated with the G500 TXi. The GTN750 will remain but will be coupled with the GMA35c. A new-to-me GTN 650xi will replace the KX-165 and GFC-500 will swap out the KFC-150 system. A new customized panel will be built by EA Panels. And the good old rocker switches will be swapped out with Carling ones from the M20U based on recommendations from the Maxwell folks. Taking the opportunity to redo the interior panels and seats etc. Can't wait 

Given the changes you are making, for a little more money you should consider trading the GTN 750 for the Xi version to pick up Smart Glide.

[shawnd]

Hi @donkaye, so far I have been told the 650Xi version will support Smart Glide functionality despite the 750 being the non-Xi version. Having said that, I don't know of a shop on the west coast that offers the trade-in feature. The Xi versions are definitely worth the money with the faster CPUs and better graphics. If you know of a place that doe do trade-ins on the west coast, please let me know. Not sure if they are willing to ship it to another dealer or whether I have to fly the plane down there.

[Z W]

I think you'll like the new setup a lot more, and it will be easier to service and maintain than your original plan.  Once you get past the pain of the upgrade price, that is.

I'll be curious to know how you like having the EIS on a separate GI-275 instead of on the G500TXi.  Mine is on the TXi and it works great, I don't think I miss the extra screen space, but I've never flown with a setup like yours.

Hope your project goes more smoothly from here.

[Pinecone]

I agree that you should move to a 750Xi.  You no longer have to leave a card in, and the start up time is significantly shorter.

Ask the shop how much the difference would be.  They may be willing to take the 750 in trade for the Xi.  That is basically what the other shops are doing.

When I did my panel, I switch to all toggle switches.  No more rockers.

 

[donkaye]

7 hours ago, shawnd said:

Hi @donkaye, so far I have been told the 650Xi version will support Smart Glide functionality despite the 750 being the non-Xi version. Having said that, I don't know of a shop on the west coast that offers the trade-in feature. The Xi versions are definitely worth the money with the faster CPUs and better graphics. If you know of a place that doe do trade-ins on the west coast, please let me know. Not sure if they are willing to ship it to another dealer or whether I have to fly the plane down there.

Pacific Coast Avionics in Aurora, Oregon near Portland did mine after the fact.  I flew up there in the morning and back in the afternoon.  It's a swap and some reconfiguring.  You're right, though, with one Xi you may be able to get Smart Glide.

[BlueSky247]

@Pinecone I'm sure you've heard this before, but I really like the thinking you did on your panel. I will be borrowing some of your ideas when I redo mine.

[shawnd]

2 hours ago, Z W said:

I'll be curious to know how you like having the EIS on a separate GI-275 instead of on the G500TXi.  Mine is on the TXi and it works great, I don't think I miss the extra screen space, but I've never flown with a setup like yours.

Hope your project goes more smoothly from here.

Thanks ZW. My initial take is that the 275 display is denser with information compared to the G500TXi's side panel. So I can glean more in one glance, similar to my current JPI. But time will tell.

[shawnd]

8 minutes ago, donkaye said:

Pacific Coast Avionics in Aurora, Oregon near Portland did mine after the fact.  I flew up there in the morning and back in the afternoon.  It's a swap and some reconfiguring.  You're right, thought, with one Xi you may be able to get Smart Glide.

Aha - they don't advertise it on their site like Sarasota does. I will reach out to them, its a short hop away for me :-)

[shawnd]

32 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

I agree that you should move to a 750Xi.  You no longer have to leave a card in, and the start up time is significantly shorter.

Ask the shop how much the difference would be.  They may be willing to take the 750 in trade for the Xi.  That is basically what the other shops are doing.

When I did my panel, I switch to all toggle switches.  No more rockers.

 

I have a Flight Stream 510 so removal of the card is not an issue. I will look into Pacific Coast based on Don's feedback regardless since all the other pieces are no XI. 

But agree with getting rid of the old rockers. I like the customizability of the Carling Contura V switches - should be a nice change.

[201Mooniac]

1 hour ago, shawnd said:

Aha - they don't advertise it on their site like Sarasota does. I will reach out to them, its a short hop away for me :-)

Pacific Coast did my Xi swap as well.  They had a very reasonable upgrade price.

[201Mooniac]

4 hours ago, Z W said:

I'll be curious to know how you like having the EIS on a separate GI-275 instead of on the G500TXi.  Mine is on the TXi and it works great, I don't think I miss the extra screen space, but I've never flown with a setup like yours.

I also have the TXi with a GI 275 EIS.  I didn't want to give up the screen real estate on the TXi and I found the GI 275 to have a better data layout.  Overall I think it works great.

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, BlueSky247 said:

@Pinecone I'm sure you've heard this before, but I really like the thinking you did on your panel. I will be borrowing some of your ideas when I redo mine.

Thanks.   I have about 20 hours on it and loving it more and more.

[Mooney in Oz]

10 hours ago, shawnd said:

I like the customizability of the Carling Contura V switches - should be a nice change.

I don’t mean to sound like a Debbie Downer, but are you sure the Carling V switches are approved?

The switches may not need to be approved, I don’t know and the Carling website isn’t much help.

I ask because the answer to such a question asked on the Spruce website is that these are not FAA approved.

https://www.aircraftspruce.com.au/catalog/elpages/nwm-switch-light.php?clickkey=193438

The switches do look nice.

 

[shawnd]

1 hour ago, Mooney in Oz said:

I don’t mean to sound like a Debbie Downer, but are you sure the Carling V switches are approved?

The switches may not need to be approved, I don’t know and the Carling website isn’t much help.

You are not being a Debbie Downer. I actually started the search for replacements chatting with my MSC & IA who confirmed and also asked me to chat with the Maxwells for acquiring them and they confirmed the same. Based on their feedback, all you need is a logbook entry. Maxwell's have been installing these for a while now for the panel work they have been doing. Most importantly, Mooney actually uses the same switches in the M20U, see attached panel IPC. 

Mooney Acclaim Ultra M20U Panel IPC.pdf

[PT20J]

FAA’s Advisory Circular AC 20-62E – Eligibility, Quality, and Identification of Aeronautical Replacement Parts allows the use of standard parts manufactured to an industry standard in US certificated aircraft. The biggest issue with replacing the original circuit breaker switches with plain switches is the extra circuit breakers that need to be installed and the wiring change from the original aux bus arrangement. It's not that big a deal if the panel is already apart.

[shawnd]

This is good reference Skip  Thanks.

[Schllc]

If you put the carling switches in your plane make sure to have a bag with two or three extra switch rocker covers.

bad news is that they break very easily. 
good news is replacements are cheap and snap in with no tools. 

[shawnd]

32 minutes ago, Schllc said:

If you put the carling switches in your plane make sure to have a bag with two or three extra switch rocker covers.

bad news is that they break very easily. 
good news is replacements are cheap and snap in with no tools. 

Thanks, yeah, I definitely like the cost and availability aspects of the Carling switches.

[LANCECASPER]

Fast forwarding 10, 20, 30 years you may want quite a few extras, since switch manufacturers have a habit of getting bought out by other companies or they stop making the covers.

[shawnd]

Heh, couldn’t agree more.  I am actually planning on getting a few sets of the customized actuators. Then generic blanks as well. 
 

I am working with the shop to have a custom switch body with two different LEDs. The independent lamp on top would be warm or cool white or amber based on daylight visibility. The bottom oval lens will be green. 
 

Which reminds me, if others are interested in these switch bodies, let me know. They can do a group order. 

[shawnd]

Got the test samples today…these are the actuators only.

 

High boost will have a locking actuator, not ordered yet. 

[ArtVandelay]

Got the test samples today…these are the actuators only.
 

High boost will have a locking actuator, not ordered yet. 

Those switches are huge, I went with smaller switches and moved them to the left side (not in the picture), I wanted everything I interact with within easy reach of my right hand. Also got a panel mounted compass to clean up the view.

[shawnd]

The CAD  drawing takes into account the sizing of the switches, at least based on specs. EA Panels is great to work with on that regard, we will iterate as needed. 
 

P.S. although they are bigger than the stock rocker switches, there should be enough room in the panel for them. 

[tony]

On 8/8/2024 at 11:13 PM, PT20J said:

FAA’s Advisory Circular AC 20-62E – Eligibility, Quality, and Identification of Aeronautical Replacement Parts allows the use of standard parts manufactured to an industry standard in US certificated aircraft. The biggest issue with replacing the original circuit breaker switches with plain switches is the extra circuit breakers that need to be installed and the wiring change from the original aux bus arrangement. It's not that big a deal if the panel is already apart.

Skip,  just be careful making an investment in those switches.  Remember an AC is not regulatory, its just guidance.  If you go further down into the Advisory circular it defines what a standard part is.

Standard Part. Is a part manufactured in complete compliance with an established U.S. Government or industry-accepted specification, which includes design, manufacturing, and uniform identification requirements. The specification must include all information necessary to produce and conform to the part. The specification must be published so that any party may manufacture the part. Examples include, but are not limited to, National Aerospace Standard (NAS), Air Force/Navy (AN) Aeronautical Standard, Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), Aerospace Standard (AS), Military Standard (MS), etc.

Just be sure that these switches  can meet that guidance.