Annual inspection referral

[markazzarito]

Hey all i live in southern CA and have a 1963 Mooney M20C. I'm looking for a good recommendation on a shop for annual inspection. I've had the plane here since 2012 and I've been to a number of shops. Without going into all the details overall I've been disappointed by the lack of care most shops use in these inspections. Frankly I'm way more nervous to fly the plane after annual than before based on my experiences. 

If anyone lives in Southern CA and has a shop they love please share!

 

Thanks

Edited June 3, 2024 by markazzarito
corrected spelling

[Ragsf15e]

3 minutes ago, markazzarito said:

Hey all i live in southern CA and have a 1963 Mooney M20C. I'm looking for a good recommendation on a shop for annual inspection. I've had the plane here since 2012 and I've been to an number of shops. Without going into all the details overall I've been disappointed by the lack of care most shops use in these inspections. Frankly I'm way more nervous to fly the plane after annual than before based on my experiences. 

If anyone lives in Southern CA and has a shop they love please share!

 

Thanks

Ha! You should be nervous or lets say thorough even after a great shop works on it!  I don’t think you’ll find perfection, but Top Gun in Stockton (short flight) has a lot of happy customers.  I went there once for annual and I happened to be living nearby.  They definitely know Mooney.  You could certainly do worse.

[markazzarito]

Thanks! flying out for the inspection is not a problem its the getting home part that's no Bueno. So ideally i can find a good shop within reasonable uber/driving distance! 

[DCarlton]

3 hours ago, markazzarito said:

Hey all i live in southern CA and have a 1963 Mooney M20C. I'm looking for a good recommendation on a shop for annual inspection. I've had the plane here since 2012 and I've been to a number of shops. Without going into all the details overall I've been disappointed by the lack of care most shops use in these inspections. Frankly I'm way more nervous to fly the plane after annual than before based on my experiences. 

If anyone lives in Southern CA and has a shop they love please share!

 

Thanks

Unless I have no other choice, I don’t want to go through any more annuals unless they are owner assisted, I’m aware of whats been touched, and I’m there when things are buttoned up.  

[markazzarito]

Unfortunately unless you have a bunch of extra time you have no choice its scary supposed to be a process that keeps the plane safe but quite the opposite from my experience 

[MikeOH]

Have you tried CAVU Aviation at RAL?  I had an annual done there a couple of years ago; they follow the Mooney checklist and I had no issues.   Not an MSC, however.  I've also had work done at General Aviation in FUL and was happy, but never had an annual done there.

I've used Top Gun twice (out of six annuals) as they are thorough and know Mooneys, obviously.  They are expensive and a total logistical NIGHTMARE to get to from SoCal.

[GMBrown]

Foothill Aircraft on cable is a MSC. Haven't used them so I have no opinion.

I use Maintenance One on RAL.  Not a MSC but they service my K, and before I bought the K, they maintained my C. Good guys.

[Ragsf15e]

18 hours ago, MikeOH said:

Have you tried CAVU Aviation at RAL?  I had an annual done there a couple of years ago; they follow the Mooney checklist and I had no issues.   Not an MSC, however.  I've also had work done at General Aviation in FUL and was happy, but never had an annual done there.

I've used Top Gun twice (out of six annuals) as they are thorough and know Mooneys, obviously.  They are expensive and a total logistical NIGHTMARE to get to from SoCal.

Ha! Logistical nightmare?! One way rental? One way flight? Buddy’s mooney?  I’m kind of messing with you because if I don’t use the one shop here in town, it’s like 350 miles to the nearest “big city”.  

[MikeOH]

55 minutes ago, Ragsf15e said:

Ha! Logistical nightmare?! One way rental? One way flight? Buddy’s mooney?  I’m kind of messing with you because if I don’t use the one shop here in town, it’s like 350 miles to the nearest “big city”.  

LOL!  Yeah, no commercial flights (well, once or twice a week to Vegas, nothing on weekends), no buddy Mooney so it's a one way car rental (6 hour drive)...plus KSCK (Stockton) does NOT have car rental on site...plus the airport is at the south end of town and the rental car place is a 20-25 minute Uber ride....plus, to get a good rate on a one-way rental I have to drop off at KONT (Ontario) which means 30 minute round trip for a family member to pick me up.  Oh, and did I mention the first time I drove back up with my wife in our car to pick up the plane it was IFR all weekend (no way I was departing into that on a first flight after an annual), and we had to drive back home so I could be back to work on Monday.  Got to do it all over the next weekend! Something like 30 hours of driving

If it sounds like I'm whining...that's because I am!!

[Ragsf15e]

1 hour ago, MikeOH said:

LOL!  Yeah, no commercial flights (well, once or twice a week to Vegas, nothing on weekends), no buddy Mooney so it's a one way car rental (6 hour drive)...plus KSCK (Stockton) does NOT have car rental on site...plus the airport is at the south end of town and the rental car place is a 20-25 minute Uber ride....plus, to get a good rate on a one-way rental I have to drop off at KONT (Ontario) which means 30 minute round trip for a family member to pick me up.  Oh, and did I mention the first time I drove back up with my wife in our car to pick up the plane it was IFR all weekend (no way I was departing into that on a first flight after an annual), and we had to drive back home so I could be back to work on Monday.  Got to do it all over the next weekend! Something like 30 hours of driving

If it sounds like I'm whining...that's because I am!!

I guess i got lucky when I went there.  I was staying in Carson City, NV.  Flew it over and my wife met me with the car.  We took a vacation up pacific coast highway.  She drove me back over to pick it up when it was done. Easy peasy.

[47U]

13 hours ago, MikeOH said:

plus the airport is at the south end of town and the rental car place is a 20-25 minute Uber ride

An alternative to renting a car might be to take the Uber up to SMF.  It’s only 65 miles from Top Gun and there’s multiple flights to multiple SOCAL airports on SWA (and other airlines).  The roundtrip airfare might be cost-comparable to two one-way car rentals.  And certainly less time spent on I-5.  

California’s high-speed rail could be a future option, but that might be a cheap shot at the politicos and I don’t want to start anything.   

[Fritz1]

no easy way out, over the years I have developed a method where I have a Mooney guru far away do one annual and the next annual I do with a local A&P that is very familiar with my engine, either way I help as much as I can and make it clear to everybody that they will be paid that same and me staying involved does not reduce their pay, after a while they start to trust me, I do simple things and learn, sometimes I find stuff that nobody else does and things run smoothly. Like with any project there are surprises, the OP then has a chance to step in and gently guide around obstacles, find parts, have them shipped overnight so the bird gets back into the air.

[MB65E]

I work with Bob McGrath at VNY on various projects and would recommend his services. PCAM is his business name.  There are a few others here that use him. He’s been working on aircraft a long time!! I am not one to recommend a single Mooney service center except TopGun. 

He can be reached at (818) 336-7215 

-Matt

[MikeOH]

4 hours ago, 47U said:

An alternative to renting a car might be to take the Uber up to SMF.  It’s only 65 miles from Top Gun and there’s multiple flights to multiple SOCAL airports on SWA (and other airlines).  The roundtrip airfare might be cost-comparable to two one-way car rentals.  And certainly less time spent on I-5.  

California’s high-speed rail could be a future option, but that might be a cheap shot at the politicos and I don’t want to start anything.   

I actually considered that but two hour long Uber rides plus airfares came out considerably more than the car rentals that I have been able to find.  The CB in me went for the low cost option....but I may well spend the extra coin in the future as my mental health to avoid 12+ hours of driving may well be worth the premium

[markazzarito]

4 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

no easy way out, over the years I have developed a method where I have a Mooney guru far away do one annual and the next annual I do with a local A&P that is very familiar with my engine, either way I help as much as I can and make it clear to everybody that they will be paid that same and me staying involved does not reduce their pay, after a while they start to trust me, I do simple things and learn, sometimes I find stuff that nobody else does and things run smoothly. Like with any project there are surprises, the OP then has a chance to step in and gently guide around obstacles, find parts, have them shipped overnight so the bird gets back into the air.

Ya i really like this plan unfortunately barely have time to fly the plane much less participate in the annual.. i used to do this and they were by far the best annuals i've had not because of my added knowledge but maybe my presence insured the shop guys paid attention to their job. 

[markazzarito]

On 6/3/2024 at 10:49 PM, MikeOH said:

Have you tried CAVU Aviation at RAL?  I had an annual done there a couple of years ago; they follow the Mooney checklist and I had no issues.   Not an MSC, however.  I've also had work done at General Aviation in FUL and was happy, but never had an annual done there.

I've used Top Gun twice (out of six annuals) as they are thorough and know Mooneys, obviously.  They are expensive and a total logistical NIGHTMARE to get to from SoCal.

Thanks gonna give CAVU a shot see how it goes i'll report back!

[markazzarito]

On 6/4/2024 at 1:07 AM, GMBrown said:

Foothill Aircraft on cable is a MSC. Haven't used them so I have no opinion.

I use Maintenance One on RAL.  Not a MSC but they service my K, and before I bought the K, they maintained my C. Good guys.

Gonna try CAVU on RAL i have used foothill in the past i've done multiple annuals there and all in all they were ok did have one scary flight where i lost manifold pressure just after takeoff leaving annual the pressure hose wasn't tightened to make it even more interesting the plane was re-rigged (they did a great job here) the flight controls were set up differently and with an ipad mount on the yoke i couldn't get the deflection i needed to get the nose down for the final approach this coupled with no manifold pressure indication was interesting to say the least. This isn't the reason i wont go back.. They started the annual "tax" price went up 25% every year and the last annual i had there they made me overhaul the prop with less than 200 hours due to calendar time even though it was in great condition and had been taken completely apart inspected parts replaced and put back together by American Propeller just three years prior (not technically an overhaul) started to feel like if they couldn't run the bill up over 8k they didn't want the plane so they would find a way to run it up. 

Edited June 5, 2024 by markazzarito

[MikeOH]

@markazzarito

Yeah, I used Foothill for my pre-buy and was a bit disappointed they didn't catch the leaky prop seals!  I'd just been thinking about trying them for an annual so I appreciate the PIREP!  Sounds like if I want an expensive annual I don't have to go all the way to Stockton, however

[LBM]

11 hours ago, Fritz1 said:

no easy way out, over the years I have developed a method where I have a Mooney guru far away do one annual and the next annual I do with a local A&P that is very familiar with my engine, either way I help as much as I can and make it clear to everybody that they will be paid that same and me staying involved does not reduce their pay, after a while they start to trust me, I do simple things and learn, sometimes I find stuff that nobody else does and things run smoothly. Like with any project there are surprises, the OP then has a chance to step in and gently guide around obstacles, find parts, have them shipped overnight so the bird gets back into the air.

I’m afraid we’re on the wrong coast to help the OP, but this is a useful opportunity to share info.  I’m 18 months into the journey, may be falling into your method but I’m thinking I’ll do the next annual with the same remote Mooney guru as the first, taking advantage of their promised cost reduction after they got their arms around the mess.  Curious to know who you’re using, both remote and local.  Still looking for good Mooney shops in NoVA as my remote guru is in NJ.  Any recommendations will be much appreciated.  ‘64 M20E based HEF.

[Fritz1]

talking East Coast I have heard good things about Cole in GA and Airmods in Trenton, Weber in PA is a long established service center, there is an A&P on MS at KGAI, callsign jetdriven I think, he sounds knowledgeable,

personally I am about to take my A&P oral / practical in this summer as soon I have a little time to prep, passed written last year, my Mooney Guru is Brian Kendrick in San Marcos TX, known him for 25 years, he has forgotten more about Mooneys than I will ever know, my local guy has a full time job fixing jets, old salt, he helps me because I treat him well an pay him well, maxed out and turns down business, I will do whatever it takes to get this guy's attention, changed turbo wastegate with him last year, for avionics Freedom in Lynchburg VA is an excellent choice.

Good and experienced A&P IAs are typically overworked, a lot of them are burned out like many people who are good at what they do, to get their attention you have to set yourself apart, pay better, cause less trouble, be entertaining and come up with fixes for their business or personal problems that they cannot fix themselves, kinda almost like having an employee on your payroll, bottom line this is a complex management situation often requiring the OPs personal involvement and out of the box thinking, the desired result is your bird ready to fly from sea to shining sea when you are ready

 

[Pinecone]

@jetdriven is at KGAI.

 

I have heard mixed reviews of Air Mods. 

[GMBrown]

I have used CAVU at RAL for several things. And always had a good experience at a fair price.

[daytonabch04]

I live in VA and fly to GA for my oil changes and TX for my annuals..

[MikeOH]

On 6/6/2024 at 10:52 AM, GMBrown said:

I have used CAVU at RAL for several things. And always had a good experience at a fair price.

Yes, Richard, the owner, is a stand-up guy.  He really helped me out when I first bought my plane; he was working out of his van then as it was before he established CAVU at RAL.  Good to see him succeeding; need more stories like his for GA.

[Born2Fly]

On 6/5/2024 at 11:09 PM, markazzarito said:

Gonna try CAVU on RAL i have used foothill in the past i've done multiple annuals there and all in all they were ok did have one scary flight where i lost manifold pressure just after takeoff leaving annual the pressure hose wasn't tightened to make it even more interesting the plane was re-rigged (they did a great job here) the flight controls were set up differently and with an ipad mount on the yoke i couldn't get the deflection i needed to get the nose down for the final approach this coupled with no manifold pressure indication was interesting to say the least. This isn't the reason i wont go back.. They started the annual "tax" price went up 25% every year and the last annual i had there they made me overhaul the prop with less than 200 hours due to calendar time even though it was in great condition and had been taken completely apart inspected parts replaced and put back together by American Propeller just three years prior (not technically an overhaul) started to feel like if they couldn't run the bill up over 8k they didn't want the plane so they would find a way to run it up. 

I recommend Maintenance One over CAVU. In my experience CAVU is way more expensive and longer wait times.