Locked in my Mooney! Send help…

[natdm]

1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

Yes,  I’ve seen the dramatic footage. 
 

That incident was apparently a maintenance induced failure. I am not familiar with the “safety clip” referenced in the accident report.

The latch on my bird is pretty much bomb proof. The only benefit I can see to locking it before flight is that it forces the pilot to make sure that the latch is closed.

 

How much does your latch stick out? Mine probably isn't totally flat, it sticks up maybe 1/16th of an inch. Do.. I have.. a bad "safety clip", I worry? :-|

[Shadrach]

16 minutes ago, natdm said:

How much does your latch stick out? Mine probably isn't totally flat, it sticks up maybe 1/16th of an inch. Do.. I have.. a bad "safety clip", I worry? :-|

I can’t speak to the K models. The vintage bids have a thin steel lever that sits flush against the the door when closed. It has a slight curve at the tail of the lever so one can get a finger tip under it pry it open.  This is an image of a salvage door, but it’s identical to mine. In the position depicted the latch is locked over center. If you pushed on either of the latch pins it would only push the internal mechanism further over center latched position. It requires a fair amount of effort to open.  It’s not difficult but definitely potential for the fairer sex to brake a nail. Like any over-center link design, the initial pull through center requires more effort.  It’s been absolutely bullet proof. Any baggage door mishaps have been pilot induced. 
 

Over the years Mooney spent a significant amount of energy refining components of the M20 airframe…not all of them were improved with refinement…indeed sometimes simplicity and reliability was sacrificed.
 

[natdm]

16 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

I can’t speak to the K models. The vintage bids have a thin steel lever that sits flush against the the door when closed. It has a slight curve at the tail of the lever so one can get a finger tip under it pry it open.  This is an image of a salvage door, but it’s identical to mine. In the position depicted the latch is locked over center. If you pushed on either of the latch pins it would only push the internal mechanism further over center latched position. It requires a fair amount of effort to open.  It’s not difficult but definitely potential for the fairer sex to brake a nail. Like any over-center link design, the initial pull through center requires more effort.  It’s been absolutely bullet proof. Any baggage door mishaps have been pilot induced. 
 

Over the years Mooney spent a significant amount of energy refining components of the M20 airframe…not all of them were improved with refinement…indeed sometimes simplicity and reliability was sacrificed.

That's more flush than mine, by a hair. 

[EricJ]

18 hours ago, Joe Larussa said:

Landed today after an hour flight. Taxied to my hangar and the door latch wouldn’t move. So this is how it ends I was thinking. I called my A&P and he just happened to be around the corner. I handed him the key through the tiny window and he unlocked the door. Apparently the lock cylinder had turned in flight and locked the door from the outside. I’m guessing it’s time to remove it and take it to a locksmith? Lol

If you don't have one, it's not hard to add an inside release to the cargo hatch.   There are a couple threads here on how to do it and a couple of very old magazine articles on it as well.   It was one of the first things I did when I got my airframe mechanic rating.

[Shadrach]

8 minutes ago, natdm said:

That's more flush than mine, by a hair. 

That lever is literally resting against the baggage door. It would require a large hammer to recess it further.

[201Mooniac]

23 hours ago, Shadrach said:

The door window is secured with 18 machine screws and lock nuts that hold down 9 rectangular aluminum plates that sandwich the window against at least 1" of of overlapping door skin to which it is glued.  I'm not saying you could not break it, but it is not going to be easy, mostly because it will flex, distributing and absorbing the energy from a kick

I'm sorry I wasn't clear when I wrote that, I agree with you completely, when I said side window I was thinking pilot side, I wouldn't try to break out the window from the door.  Thanks for making that clear.

[Shadrach]

18 hours ago, natdm said:

That's more flush than mine, by a hair. 

I was at the hangar this morning and did some experimenting with the latch.  I previously thought that pushing on the latch pins would just push the mechanism further over center making it impossible to push them into the retracted position. I was wrong. The pins can be pushed back into the retracted position. However, it takes considerable effort...in excess of 10lbs of pressure at a precise vector to push them in with the door open.  With it closed, you would also have the friction from the striker plate acting on the sides of the latch pins.  It's just not going to happen in any conceivable scenario other than a very unlikely mechanical/maintenance failure. I will confidently continue to leave my baggage door unlocked in flight to ensure that it remains available as an emergency exit.

[RoundTwo]

On 5/30/2024 at 12:24 AM, DCarlton said:

Happened to me once too.  Was able to radio the FBO and have them come open the door from the outside.  Since then, I’ve wondered how hard it would be to kick the door open if necessary.  

Wouldn’t it be easier, and a whole lot less expensive, to go out through the baggage door?

[ArtVandelay]

Wouldn’t it be easier, and a whole lot less expensive, to go out through the baggage door?

I would imagine that takes some dexterity to get back to it, some people may not be able manage it.

[Igor_U]

9 minutes ago, ArtVandelay said:

I would imagine that takes some dexterity to get back to it, some people may not be able manage it.

I agree but I think it would be even more difficult to kick and brake the window.... 

[Pinecone]

Could always get a canopy breaker tool.  Not the little hammer thing for cars, but the one the USAF had to get through a fighter canopy

Here is a civilian version

https://flyboyaccessories.com/products/chisel-style-canopy-breaker

 

[Mooneymite]

On 5/30/2024 at 3:58 PM, ArtVandelay said:

Before damaging my plane I would just call 911 if there was nobody working at the airport.

I do not wish to cast aspersions on emergency personnel.  They have a job to do and mostly they do it very well, but in our fly-in community when 911 was called by an overzealous resident for minor incidents, the emergency personnel did a lot of damage to the aircraft.  Unless it was a life threatening situation, I would not call 911.

[DCarlton]

8 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

Wouldn’t it be easier, and a whole lot less expensive, to go out through the baggage door?

Depends on how old and stiff you are and whether your baggage door is locked.  

[DCarlton]

9 hours ago, Shadrach said:

I was at the hangar this morning and did some experimenting with the latch.  I previously thought that pushing on the latch pins would just push the mechanism further over center making it impossible to push them into the retracted position. I was wrong. The pins can be pushed back into the retracted position. However, it takes considerable effort...in excess of 10lbs of pressure at a precise vector to push them in with the door open.  With it closed, you would also have the friction from the striker plate acting on the sides of the latch pins.  It's just not going to happen in any conceivable scenario other than a very unlikely mechanical/maintenance failure. I will confidently continue to leave my baggage door unlocked in flight to ensure that it remains available as an emergency exit.

If you had to, I think you could just kick the door midway between the rotating handle and where the locking pin goes through the door frame.  The latch pin doesn't stick that far into the door frame and it's not that robust.  Betcha everything would flex and the door would open fairly easily.   Not gonna try it though.  :> 

[RoundTwo]

18 hours ago, DCarlton said:

If you had to, I think you could just kick the door midway between the rotating handle and where the locking pin goes through the door frame.  The latch pin doesn't stick that far into the door frame and it's not that robust.  Betcha everything would flex and the door would open fairly easily.   Not gonna try it though.  :> 

Before I tried that, I’d be calling my favorite MSC for a price check on a replacement door. Then, I’d make myself comfortable, waiting for rescue. 

[DCarlton]

6 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

Before I tried that, I’d be calling my favorite MSC for a price check on a replacement door. Then, I’d make myself comfortable, waiting for rescue. 

Even if the OAT is showing 100 degrees and it’s 80 percent humidity ?  Comfort is relative.  

[RoundTwo]

8 hours ago, DCarlton said:

Even if the OAT is showing 100 degrees and it’s 80 percent humidity ?  Comfort is relative.  

That would be a historical event if that ever happened.

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

That would be a historical event if that ever happened.

Not where I live. We call it "July," except when it's August . . . With occasional happenings in May, June and September. 

Three or four years ago, we reached 100° (with high humidity) every day in September. THAT was one for the record books!

[RoundTwo]

6 minutes ago, Hank said:

Not where I live. We call it "July," except when it's August . . . With occasional happenings in May, June and September. 

Three or four years ago, we reached 100° (with high humidity) every day in September. THAT was one for the record books!

I know people like to toss around high heat and humidity numbers to make a point, but 100° and 80% RH requires a dew point higher than any dew point ever recorded in the US. I’m just sayin’…

[Hank]

47 minutes ago, RoundTwo said:

I know people like to toss around high heat and humidity numbers to make a point, but 100° and 80% RH requires a dew point higher than any dew point ever recorded in the US. I’m just sayin’…

Come to Lower Alabama in mid-July. Let's meet at KEDN the week before Oshkosh, and look at their weather station together.

I'll be there at 19Z if you come.

[Pinecone]

FYI, it would require a dew point of 92.7 degrees.

[Joe Larussa]

So problem solved. So when unlocking the door it doesn’t take much of a turn to unlock the door and remove the key. If you don’t turn it a full 180 degrees the cylinder can turn back and lock. Glad it was a cheap fix, and now I understand my plane on a whole new level. Lol

[Ragsf15e]

1 minute ago, Joe Larussa said:

So problem solved. So when unlocking the door it doesn’t take much of a turn to unlock the door and remove the key. If you don’t turn it a full 180 degrees the cylinder can turn back and lock. Glad it was a cheap fix, and now I understand my plane on a whole new level. Lol

That’s real good to know as mine is just like yours (no baggage door release).  Only I usually have 2 eight year olds and my wife in there with me, and even if we’re not in sweltering heat, that’s gonna be some serious torture!

[Texas Mooney]

35 minutes ago, Joe Larussa said:

So problem solved. So when unlocking the door it doesn’t take much of a turn to unlock the door and remove the key. If you don’t turn it a full 180 degrees the cylinder can turn back and lock. Glad it was a cheap fix, and now I understand my plane on a whole new level. Lol

Just do this. Future problems solved  

 

[DCarlton]

12 hours ago, RoundTwo said:

That would be a historical event if that ever happened.

Would 50% be sufficient exaggeration without being too extreme.  I noticed you were in GA.  Heck 100 degrees in dry AZ in the summer would get me out of the cabin quickly.