Way too cheap to buy a $1500+ sidewinder

[bcg]

So I built something myself for about $200 in parts. I may have to drop the tire down or make a handle extension to get the geometry right, I'll find out when I try it tomorrow.

 

The little C seems to gain weight every time I push it back into the hangar. Plus, it's hard to steer and get enough momentum to get over the lip.

 

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[mike_elliott]

Just a design suggestion, get a fatter tire

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, bcg said:

So I built something myself for about $200 in parts. I may have to drop the tire down or make a handle extension to get the geometry right, I'll find out when I try it tomorrow.

 

The little C seems to gain weight every time I push it back into the hangar. Plus, it's hard to steer and get enough momentum to get over the lip.

Nice!  That design is so simple, it probably could be manufactured and marketed en mass for half what it costs to make a Sidewinder.

[bcg]

Nice!  That design is so simple, it probably could be manufactured and marketed en mass for half what it costs to make a Sidewinder.

Yeah, once I get measurements and dimension worked out, I may fabricate something more finished looking and see what it would cost to produce them en masse. There's probably a decent sized market for a $500 powered tow bar, especially if I can make it fold so it's easy to take with you.

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[Fly Boomer]

1 minute ago, bcg said:

Yeah, once I get measurements and dimension worked out, I may fabricate something more finished looking and see what it would cost to produce them en masse. There's probably a decent sized market for a $500 powered tow bar, especially if I can make it fold so it's easy to take with you.

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Or have one of each.  A great little tow bar that stays in the hangar at that price point would be popular.  If the folding version came in anywhere below Sidewinder, it would get a lot of attention.

[exM20K]

Or, always popular on the old Mooney mailing list, get a hangar wench.

-dan

[mike_elliott]

ah yes, memories of AvSnorkle and Tony Hale

[A64Pilot]

17 hours ago, mike_elliott said:

Just a design suggestion, get a fatter tire

Might could accomplish something similar by letting air out assuming it has air in it.

If he has the gear ratio right I think he’s got something, is it variable speed?

Mount the motor closer to the tire (shorter chain) and it could fold in half just past the motor. Simple plate welded on each side with a pin to go through the plates to hold it in place when unfolded.

 

[bcg]

Might could accomplish something similar by letting air out assuming it has air in it.
If he has the gear ratio right I think he’s got something, is it variable speed?
 

It is variable speed. The control box has a switch to reverse direction and a dial to control speed.

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[A64Pilot]

Just now, bcg said:

It is variable speed. The control box has a switch to reverse direction and a dial to control speed.

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I think you have something. I like simple. When I was building aircraft I used to say if it’s simple and it works, it ain’t stupid. A Play on KISS.

God love our Engineers, they were good but if you let them they would build a nuclear powered wrist watch, when a wind up works.

[bcg]

I think you have something. I like simple. When I was building aircraft I used to say if it’s simple and it works, it ain’t stupid. A Play on KISS.
God love our Engineers, they were good but if you let them they would build a nuclear powered wrist watch, when a wind up works.

Engineers like "elegant" solutions. Technicians like functional design. I'm a technician...

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[A64Pilot]

Just now, bcg said:

Engineers like "elegant" solutions. Technicians like functional design. I'm a technician...

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Electric shop had a sign on the wall, it said.

“At some point you have to shoot the Engineers and just build the damn thing”

I called their continual redesigns “creeping elegance” Every time they would design something, they would take a look at it and decide they could make it better if they started over, that’s Creeping Elegence.

[bcg]

Might could accomplish something similar by letting air out assuming it has air in it.
If he has the gear ratio right I think he’s got something, is it variable speed?
Mount the motor closer to the tire (shorter chain) and it could fold in half just past the motor. Simple plate welded on each side with a pin to go through the plates to hold it in place when unfolded.
 

On the gear ratio, the motor has a reduction gear in it and is meant for electric bikes or scooters (think small electric Vespa, not Razor) so, it should have lots of torque. The tire is probably going to have to come down some or I'm going to need to add an extension for the handle to get the angle right for standing comfortably, or move the wheel over to have it ride on the nose wheel. I'd rather have it on the ground though, it should require less effort to move it that way.

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[A64Pilot]

I had assumed it was on the nose wheel.

I suspect if it’s ground contact that you’re going to have to a very significant downforce to get sufficient traction, probably more than that handle can take. By making it contact the front tire and especially if it’s small diameter and if you put the driving mechanism close to the pivot point that gives you greater leverage so that the down force required isn’t so great, plus a smaller drive wheel gives you even greater gear reduction, but being small may reduce traction on the tire. I have a Sidewinder, it’s gear reduction I think occurs first in the Milwaukee angle drive, then again in both of the chain drive sections and it of course has a small heavily toothed drive roller.

I think you’ll know when you try it, everything until then is just guessing. I wish you luck, just don’t give up if it doesn’t work like you want right away

[DonMuncy]

It took me 10 months or so to finalize the design on mine. This one is simpler (easier and cheaper to build) than mine. But mine has a fatter tire and a more positive mechanism for attaching to the plane. I will be interested to watch how your design evolves.

[pagirard]

On 2/27/2024 at 4:28 PM, bcg said:

 

So I built something myself for about $200 in parts. I may have to drop the tire down or make a handle extension to get the geometry right, I'll find out when I try it tomorrow.

 

The little C seems to gain weight every time I push it back into the hangar. Plus, it's hard to steer and get enough momentum to get over the lip.

 

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I have CNC machining prototyping capabilities, if you ever need to prototype something let me know. I bought a hitch motor for HF to do the same thing but never build anything, I was trying to move the from tire of the Mooney with a roller, it seems like you chose to have the tire on the ground directly - do you ever loose traction ?

[bcg]

I have CNC machining prototyping capabilities, if you ever need to prototype something let me know. I bought a hitch motor for HF to do the same thing but never build anything, I was trying to move the from tire of the Mooney with a roller, it seems like you chose to have the tire on the ground directly - do you ever loose traction ?

I'm actually still working mine out. I've had to move the tire, my math had errors. I'm on V 3 now, going to try it tomorrow and see if I've got it right. Once I know for sure where everything needs to go, I'll weld a mount for the motor into the bar with some adjustment for tightening the chain.

This will end up rolling the tire, I think. Getting it to the ground will make it way too big to be easily portable.

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[DonMuncy]

I presume you have seen pictures of mine in my gallery. I spent some time working out the gear ratios, etc. Feel free to contact me or use any details from mine, if it will help you.

[DonMuncy]

Incidentally, I have sold a dozen or so of mine. The design seems to work well.

[Skyland]

Here's my CB tug I cobbled together.  Used a powered wheelchair motor and gearbox off eBay.  Started out with a rubber capstan but it slipped too much on the tire when wet.  Now use a HF abrasive sanding wheel that works well.  The larger diameter of the new wheel raised the geometry so had to bend the handle for clearance.  End of the handle is not in the picture but extends out like the hand tow bar.  The switch plus fwd/rev is in the handle.  All told only a little over a hundred bucks in the project and some home machine shop fun.  

[Pinecone]

11 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

Incidentally, I have sold a dozen or so of mine. The design seems to work well.

Picture of yours?

[bcg]

11 hours ago, DonMuncy said:

I presume you have seen pictures of mine in my gallery. I spent some time working out the gear ratios, etc. Feel free to contact me or use any details from mine, if it will help you.

I hadn't seen the photos, I'll look at your gallery now.  Thanks for the offer, if I run into something I can't work out I'll get in touch.

[bcg]

10 hours ago, Skyland said:

Here's my CB tug I cobbled together.  Used a powered wheelchair motor and gearbox off eBay.  Started out with a rubber capstan but it slipped too much on the tire when wet.  Now use a HF abrasive sanding wheel that works well.  The larger diameter of the new wheel raised the geometry so had to bend the handle for clearance.  End of the handle is not in the picture but extends out like the hand tow bar.  The switch plus fwd/rev is in the handle.  All told only a little over a hundred bucks in the project and some home machine shop fun.  

That sanding disc is an interesting idea.  The direct drive definitely makes it more compact and I like the way the battery is setup.  What did you use for the battery holder?

[Skyland]

Search for Kobalt 24V battery adapter.  I'm impressed by how much power that battery puts out.

My original goal was to make a lightweight tug to bring along in the plane.  This motor/gearbox is very well built and it all turned out to be a bit heavy and awkward with the protruding bits so it stays in the hangar.

I really only use it when the ramp is wet and slippery.  Otherwise I find it easier to push the plane the old fashioned way.

[bcg]

21 minutes ago, Skyland said:

Search for Kobalt 24V battery adapter.  I'm impressed by how much power that battery puts out.

My original goal was to make a lightweight tug to bring along in the plane.  This motor/gearbox is very well built and it all turned out to be a bit heavy and awkward with the protruding bits so it stays in the hangar.

I really only use it when the ramp is wet and slippery.  Otherwise I find it easier to push the plane the old fashioned way.

Awesome, thank you!  I found one for the Milwaukee M18 batteries, since my tools are all Milwaukee and I've already got a bunch of those batteries and chargers I'm going to go that route.  That'll take up a lot less space than the battery I was using and make this a whole lot more portable.

The C is easy to push around on a flattish surface, the little bit of uphill, door tracks and concrete lip going into the hangar are tough to do alone though.  I have to get a running start so the momentum carries the plane in but, doing that I can't steer, or watch where it's going really.  I don't want to run into a wall and it's inevitable that I will eventually if I keep doing it the way I have been.