Heating plane before starting

[AndreiC]

Hello all,

I plan to fly tomorrow a long flight (91C-KSAF) in very cold conditions. Overnight the temps will go down to -5ºF, and when I plan to leave they will be around 0ºF. I want to make sure the plane is warm enough to not damage anything when starting. My plan is to go in the morning, plug in the Tanis heater, and start the hangar heat as well, and then go out for a coffee waiting for things to warm up. (Plane is in an insulated hangar, where there is a furnace that can bring the temp up to about 60ºF in maybe 30-45 minutes, but I cannot leave the heat on overnight.) How long do you think the engine will need to stay at 60ºF, with the Tanis heater on, to get it to a good starting temperature (say, above freezing)? I know it's a big block of metal that takes some time to heat up...

Thanks.

[hubcap]

I usually plug Myrtle in at least 24 hours before a trip in cold weather.

[Pinecone]

I plug mine in the evening before.

Can you plug in the Tanis overnight?  

[AndreiC]

Yes, I can plug it in the night before. But I don't think just the Tanis heater will be enough to get the engine to an acceptable temperature without the hangar heater running for a while.

[Pinecone]

My hangar is not heated, and I have just a oil sump heater.  Overnight, with an insulated cover (Mac's) I see high 60s under the cowl in the morning.

By the time I taxi, the oil temp is in the green.

[AndreiC]

9 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

My hangar is not heated, and I have just a oil sump heater.  Overnight, with an insulated cover (Mac's) I see high 60s under the cowl in the morning.

By the time I taxi, the oil temp is in the green.

But even in sub-zero temps?

[Pinecone]

Down to around 10F.  But it should heat to a temperature differential.  So if it is colder, the engine might only be in the 50s, which is still pretty good.

I would put a remote thermometer under the cowl and throw a sleeping bag or comforter over the cowl (Goodwill), and see what you get.  If you need to turn on the furnace, at least the engine will be warmer than ambient.

[A64Pilot]

Cowl plugs and a good blanket, the old type thick quilted furniture blanket maybe will do wonders. any old pillow will work as a cowl plug of course. The new furniture blankets aren’t any good for this, sleeping bag would be great and might be a good thing to have in the airplane anyway.

Being in a hangar meaning no wind along with an insulated cover and cowl plugs will I’m sure get you there if left overnight.

Many have to do it outside, not everyone has a hangar.

I don’t think heating the hanger to 60 f for a few hours would do much, forced hot air into the cowl flaps will given enough time.

A 60W old fashioned drop light placed inside the cowl is more heat than you would think

[Shadrach]

30 minutes ago, AndreiC said:

But even in sub-zero temps?

Absolutely. Just need a good blanket.

As for the cabin, I would get a space heater to bring it up to temp. Ambient temp of 60° over two hours is not going to do a lot to heat a cold soaked airframe.

[Ragsf15e]

I’m somewhere real cold too (-8f this morning).  Id plug in the tanis with a blanket the night before as others say.  Id also use a space heater in the cabin.  Small unit on low.  If it has a thermostat, set it around 50-60 and just leave it plugged in as well.  If not, turn it on when you go for coffee.

The tanis, especially the bottom oil pan unit will heat the whole engine relatively well if left on a long time. Not so for a short duration.  The ones with cylinder head heat might work better over a shorter time, but I’m not sure.  I really think you’ll be fine with that and a blanket overnight.  Personally, I like to see all my engine temps above 40 before starting, but that’s just my opinion.  Usually I’m much warmer.

FWIW, I just use the above method in my insulated hanger.  I don’t have hangar heat.

[hammdo]

Could do what they do in Alaska, drain the oil and heat it up, pour it back in…

small heater in the cabin.

i have the switcheon and start the tanis and cabin heater the night before in my hanger…

Maybe?

-Don

[dzeleski]

When I was tied down outside I used a generator with just cowl plugs for an hour. That got the engine up from the 20-30s to 50s or so in most cases. Enough to get it started easily.

I do have a Reiff XP system though which is 100 watts on each cylinder and 200 watts on the sump.

Now that I’m inside I start the engine heat 4 hours before my flight and the cabin heater 1-2 hours before my flight.

At -5 you are gonna need to give it a few hours at least since the Tanis system provides way less heating power.

[jlunseth]

My plane is kept in an unheated communal long hangar. I plug it in the night before, or 4 hours before in a pinch. I don’t bother with cowl plugs or blanket. Oil temps are in the 50’s-60s even in Minnesota’s cold weather. Plugs and blanket are good if you are going to try to warm the engine out in the wind on the tarmac though. Cold winter ground level air circulating through the cowling is an excellent coolant for better or worse. I always let the engine run for awhile once started, to warm everything inside the cowling before taking off. The air/oil separator can freeze and block the engine from breathing among other things. Never had a problem as long as the engine compartment is given a chance to warm up, not even at -50dF in cruise, but it did happen once when I did not give the compartment a chance to warm. Just was out driving around in my car, its 3 dF here today and we will see negative temps in the next week.

[hubcap]

My hangar isn’t heated but I use cowl plugs and several of the quilted blankets used by movers. The engine will be toasty warm on the coldest days we have…and it’s going to be -7 F tonight. Brrrrr

[Fritz1]

I have a Reiff XP with oil cooler pad, think 1000W total, will bring engine to 100-120F over night, use blanket and cowl plug as needed, use Alien forced air engine heater for cabin, about 1500W, set to 65F, will heat cabin toasty warm no matter how cold outside, helps against windows frosting up inside while taxiing, heater of Bravo is marginally powerful enough with defrost blower on to keep windscreen clear of frost while taxiing if aircraft cabin preheated over night, typically plug in both heaters the night before, bottom line plenty of preheat makes things so much easier

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, AndreiC said:

How long do you think the engine will need to stay at 60ºF, with the Tanis heater on, to get it to a good starting temperature (say, above freezing)?

Tanis, cabin heater on low, cowl plugs, and moving blankets.  Overnight.  If you have or can improvise some sort of prop insulation, that will help.  Keep in mind that just because it starts does not mean it was "warm enough".

[PeteMc]

As others have said for the engine, toss a couple of blankets over the cowl.  Some old moving blankets if you have them.   

And I don't know if I missed it, but also go turn on the heat in the morning and open the main and baggage door and even the pilot window.  It may not really warm up the avionics a lot, but getting as much warm air as you can into the cockpit can only help. 

If you have some sort of trickle charger, it wouldn't hurt to connect that too so that battery warms up a bit.

 

[A64Pilot]

I like the idea of a sleeping bag.

God forbid you have to put one down, but if you did a sleeping bag could come in handy.

Come from being Military then I always carried a DiDi Mau bag in the cockpit, Backcountry flying some even recreated survival vests with some kind of fishing vest, probably a bit over the top for GA flying though.

[ArrowBerry]

In Manitoba we have an unheated hangar, insulated engine blanket, and an EZ heat oil pan heater. Plug it in the night before and in the morning the engine feels warm when you stick your hand through the oil door to unplug it. The oil pan heaters are most effective IMO if you have them running for a longer period of time. In a couple hours your oil might be warm, but overnight the heat will spread upward and warm the top of the engine as well. You will have a more thoroughly heated engine.

I don't think turning on the hangar heat for 1-2 hours is going to make much difference, it doesn't give enough time to warm the important components. I made a post last year with our engine and cabin preheating ideas.

Edited January 14 by ArrowBerry

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

even recreated survival vests with some kind of fishing vest

That's what I've had for years draped over the back of my seat.  It doesn't have a lot of stuff in it, but the basics.  It's something you can grab if there's a fire starting and you can't look around to see where your bigger survival bag ended up.

 

[Fly Boomer]

4 hours ago, A64Pilot said:

Backcountry flying some even recreated survival vests with some kind of fishing vest, probably a bit over the top for GA flying though.

I liked something I read some time ago:  "when the excrement hits the air handler, if it's not on your person, it might as well be in the baggage compartment or at home".

[Pinecone]

14 hours ago, PeteMc said:

That's what I've had for years draped over the back of my seat.  It doesn't have a lot of stuff in it, but the basics.  It's something you can grab if there's a fire starting and you can't look around to see where your bigger survival bag ended up.

If you go through the trouble of making a survival vest, wear it.  No need to grab anything.

 

[PeteMc]

3 hours ago, Pinecone said:

If you go through the trouble of making a survival vest, wear it. 

It's there for the What If, but the odds are in my favor that I'm going to complete my flight.  So I'll take the chance of being more comfortable and grab the vest if I need to, rather than be uncomfortable for the 1000s of hours that I won't, if ever, need it. 

Now flotation devices on over water flights where I can't glide to shore, that's a different story. 

 

ADDED:  Now that I think about it, I made the vest sometime after I bought my Mooney.  So that was over 2500 hours ago and no need for it yet.  One partial engine failure into JFK (hole in the cylinder) would never have required the survival vest even if we did do an off Apt landing.

 

Edited January 15 by PeteMc

[dkkim73]

On 1/14/2024 at 2:55 PM, A64Pilot said:

I like the idea of a sleeping bag.

God forbid you have to put one down, but if you did a sleeping bag could come in handy.

Come from being Military then I always carried a DiDi Mau bag in the cockpit, Backcountry flying some even recreated survival vests with some kind of fishing vest, probably a bit over the top for GA flying though.

I meant to reply earlier.

Perked up at the mention of a vest. I actually thought of this recently.  It really was helpful in survival training. Among many other benefits, it provides you a way to carry things if you are forced down. Several examples in the real world involve people needing to move, rather than wait at the plane for the "instant helicopter" that is apparently not as common as imagined even in the 406MHz world. 

Other benefits are: familiar location of all basic equipment, organization, etc. Can work with it on (flashlight, knife, etc, accessible when starting fire, etc). Always have the signal mirror handy when the plane flies overhead. etc. Run out of pockets quickly otherwise. 

I am needing to put together kits over the next few months given a plan to do more flying over wilderness and mountains regularly. Thinking to use something like the above SERE vest as a core, with duffels or something containing sleeping bag, down coat, camp stove, etc. that I can vary by season. Want to keep it simple to load (so it comes with) but do the thinking ahead of time. 

David

 

[NewMoon]

On 1/13/2024 at 10:47 AM, AndreiC said:

Hello all,

I plan to fly tomorrow a long flight (91C-KSAF) in very cold conditions. Overnight the temps will go down to -5ºF, and when I plan to leave they will be around 0ºF. I want to make sure the plane is warm enough to not damage anything when starting. My plan is to go in the morning, plug in the Tanis heater, and start the hangar heat as well, and then go out for a coffee waiting for things to warm up. (Plane is in an insulated hangar, where there is a furnace that can bring the temp up to about 60ºF in maybe 30-45 minutes, but I cannot leave the heat on overnight.) How long do you think the engine will need to stay at 60ºF, with the Tanis heater on, to get it to a good starting temperature (say, above freezing)? I know it's a big block of metal that takes some time to heat up...

Thanks.

I always ran my Tanis at least 24 hrs if it was that cold. also drape a sleeping bag over the cowl