Interested in a Mooney

[Aviationist]

Looking at Ks. My concerns are the following -

- Parts availability. I’ve called Mooney to inquire about this and have not received any communication back. Big concern. 
 

- cabin size - I’m 6-4 240. My experience with a J was that it was difficult to get in and out of and climbing over the seat was not ideal.

 

-Maintenance - seems like some people have good luck and some others have real bad luck. 

 

thoughts?

[Vance Harral]

You're wise to be concerned about parts availability, it's a serious issue.  That's not to say that everyday parts are a problem - a lot of parts on a Mooney are standard/conventional.  You can get brake pads, O-rings, Heim joints, AN hardware, etc.  But if you need a specialty part like an intake boot or fuel selector or landing gear components, you could easily be down for weeks/months trying to find one.  It bums me out to say that, because I'm a Mooney fan.  But if you just search recent posts right here on this board, you'll see the issue for yourself.  The problem is that Mooney is "sorta" in business, which is the worst possible scenario for parts availability.  They are not financially strong enough to reliably produce/subcontract their own specialty parts, i.e. they are not on the same financial standing as Brand C/P/B.  But they are just-enough-in-business to present an obstacle (sometimes just an emotional one) to some other vendor like Univair getting into the business of producing those specialty parts for the Mooney fleet.  That doesn't mean it's foolish to own a Mooney.  But you need to think of it more like owning a Navion or Lake, than like owning a Cessna or Beechcraft.

Regarding size, this depends greatly on the shape of your body - there are a lot of variations on 6-4/240.  There are plenty of tall/large Mooney owners who are happy with the airplane.  The cabin height and width are no different than competing airframes.  The differences are that (1) you sit slightly reclined with your feet out in front rather than upright with your legs underneath you; (2) the instrument panel is closer to your body; and (3) the *top* of the cabin is narrower, which you'll notice if a lot your height is in your torso and you have broad shoulders, otherwise not.

Actual maintenance - once you have parts - is no different than any airplane.  Involved owners who take an active role in maintenance, have the parts and service manuals, and do their own parts/service research tend to have good experiences.  Owners who don't enjoy that and would prefer to leave maintenance almost entirely in the hands of a shop, tend to have worse experiences, arguably through no fault of their own.  There is nothing Mooney-specific about that.

[Utah20Gflyer]

Owned a Mooney for two years including a very intense first annual and haven’t run into any issue getting parts.  The stuff that normally wears and needs attention is well supported.   As stated above there are things that can be difficult to source but they aren’t a super common problem.   IE intake boot, how often do those wear out?  Not too often.  
 

Make sure to buy a well cared for aircraft to limit your risk and mental well being.  There aren’t really deals in airplanes, just discounts for assumed risk.  
 

Im 6-2 and about 215 pounds, I fit fine but have yet to gracefully get into or out of my Mooney.  Someday it’s going to happen for me and hopefully there will be video evidence so I can prove it happened.  

[Fritz1]

There were about 11,000 Mooneys built of which around 8,500 are still flying, by comparison only 850 Aerostars were built and they are still supported, so the Mooney fleet is at least 10x the size of the Aerostar fleet, the last Aerostar was built around 1985, the last Mooney was built in the end of 2018 to my best knowledge, therefore there is a high level of confidence that this fleet will continue to be supported, the factory will eventually morph into an organization with a structure that is tailored to that support function or some other company will slip into that role, there are a number of excellent MSCs, parts are best sourced from there, some parts are unobtainable temporarily like the landing gear no back spring or the welded clamp on some turbochargers, this typically goes away after a couple of months, a lot of Mooney owners are mechanically inclined and work under the supervision of A&Ps on their own aircraft, this will more likely than not become rather the rule than an exception, I am 6'3 about 210lb, no issues getting in an out, seat full down headset does not hit the roof, best way to learn about the ins and outs of a K is to find a local owner and talk to him

[Aviationist]

I don’t follow the logic that a company that stopped building airplanes more recently than another builds confidence in support for the future. If anything, that short of a timeline creates more risk and uncertainty. 
 

What I’m looking for is something economical and fast that will be reliable and maintainable for my period of ownership. 
 

I’ve learned about things like the NBS, new Cband clamp issue, and intake boot. Those don’t seem like things that have been solved in months and appears has been an issue for years. 
 

to be honest it’s a huge red flag. I’ll be checking out a number of K models in the coming days. 

[PT20J]

The truth is that no one knows what the future holds for the Mooney factory. They are hanging on right now and making parts. The big issue seems to be that Mooney had a lot of custom parts made by outside vendors that are unwilling to make them without a big order for which Mooney doesn't have the cash.

The Mooney cabin design is about as wide or wider than other planes in it's class (I think it actually measures half an inch wider than a Bonanza). But it was designed with a lower profile to reduce drag. It's more like a sports car. You sit low with your legs out in front. It will accommodate long legs -- in fact, a lot of Mooneys have been fitted with factory rudder pedal extensions so that shorter people don't have to sit so close to the instrument panel. So, when trying one on, you might want to determine if it has extensions which can always be removed. Because the door is a bit small and you sit low, and the plane sits about 5 deg nose high on the ground, many people find it not as easy to get in and out of -- especially the rear seats -- as some others. A K is going to be the same as a J, so if you didn't like the J you won't like the K so far as getting in and out. 

Skip

[GeeBee]

Every airplane that goes as fast or of similar design has issues. I'll list them.

Turbo clamp? Does not matter which brand, if they are turbo they have a clamp problem

Intake boot? Not an issue on the K

NBS that is an issue

On the other hand have you checked out the 500 hour center section inspection for a Bonanza? It's a 3500 dollar inspection and if cracks are found prepare for a 5 figure bill. Oh and the re-enforcing kit does not eliminate the repeat inspections....or the cracking

Tried to get an oil pump for O-470s on earlier Bonanzas. NIP and your only hope is a salvage part even though it is Continental

Won't even discuss the control surface replacement costs on Bonanza or their availability (about the same as NBS)

Have you seen any main gear castings for a Comanche? If you do I know a lot of guys with cracked ones with airplanes on the ground and no way to repair them and the new Piper does not make them.

About the only airplane that has no parts availability problems is Cirrus. You can get one and maintain it easily including the 5 figure parachute repack every 10 years.

Bottom line? They all have their problems but when it comes to ease of maintenance and operating efficiency....hard to beat a Mooney.

 

 

 

[Falcon Man]

Mooney Corp. generally won't reliability respond to aircraft owners but they do respond to IA/AP's who work on Mooney aircraft. Have you tried Lasar for parts?

Buying a Mooney now is risky financially because the whole fleet is inflated significantly (~ 20% according to some). I bought a 1986 252 in the mid range equipment wise with an upgraded all leather interior , with 1700 TT hrs and 600 on zero time engine and 10 hrs on new cylinders, in May 2022 for 159K. Good luck finding one now for a similar price. You might want to consider delaying buying until after the 2024 elections as the economy may tank before then, if $ is much of a concern.

Of course there are plenty of 231's for sale but they are significantly slower and less efficient than a 252. I have owned two 231's, one 262, two 252's and one Encore and the 252 is the most efficient and the fastest of all the K models. I thought the Encore would beat a 252 speed wise but 10 more hp couldn't  compensate for the added weight.

My experience FWIW.

Jeff

 

[Aviationist]

15 minutes ago, Echo said:

You've tried it and you did not like it.  Move on.  That is my thought.  Maybe a little cardio.  Also a thought...

I find your comment unhelpful and to be honest, disrespectful. I’m an athletic build. 
 

I was hoping for more from this group while I work on this search and purchase, but every group has 1 right?

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, Aviationist said:

I find your comment unhelpful and to be honest, disrespectful. I’m an athletic build. 
 

I was hoping for more from this group while I work on this search and purchase, but every group has 1 right?

To be honest I found your initial request for 'help' to be a bit off-putting; you pretty much were running down the possibility of owning a Mooney and came to a group that LIKES Mooneys?!?  I'm not going to talk you into buying a Mooney, or anything else.

But, if you think buying any plane (even a Cirrus) is going to be anything like buying, owning, and maintaining a high-end luxury vehicle you are going to be one unhappy individual!  Go back and read GeeBee's post...EVERY make/model is going to have its own expensive issues/parts.

It seems as if you've never owned an aircraft?

[Echo]

In my experience a Porsche and a Mooney are NOT easy to get in and out of, but the ride makes it worth it and then some.

[PT20J]

8 minutes ago, Aviationist said:

I find your comment unhelpful and to be honest, disrespectful. I’m an athletic build. 
 

I was hoping for more from this group while I work on this search and purchase, but every group has 1 right?

Right. 

[Aviationist]

11 minutes ago, MikeOH said:

To be honest I found your initial request for 'help' to be a bit off-putting; you pretty much were running down the possibility of owning a Mooney and came to a group that LIKES Mooneys?!?  I'm not going to talk you into buying a Mooney, or anything else.

But, if you think buying any plane (even a Cirrus) is going to be anything like buying, owning, and maintaining a high-end luxury vehicle you are going to be one unhappy individual!  Go back and read GeeBee's post...EVERY make/model is going to have its own expensive issues/parts.

It seems as if you've never owned an aircraft?

Wow. 
 

I own a 172 and have about 500hrs in it including primary training. I’m looking for an upgrade. 
 

the top of the list is -

Comanche 

M20K

SR22

 

i was hoping this would be a group that didn’t only look at these machines with rose colored sunglasses and was capable of helping me through some of the pitfalls. 

Edited December 2, 2023 by Aviationist

[MikeOH]

4 minutes ago, Aviationist said:

Wow. 
 

I own a 172 and have about 500hrs in it including primary training. I’m looking for an upgrade. 
 

the top of the list is -

Comanche 

M20K

SR22

 

i was hoping this would be a group that didn’t only look at these machines with rose colored sunglasses and was capable of helping me through some of the pitfalls. 

Good luck, then. I'm sure the Cirrus and Comanche forums will be clear-eyed and happy to run down all of their aircraft issues with candor and glee

[LANCECASPER]

29 minutes ago, Aviationist said:

I find your comment unhelpful and to be honest, disrespectful. I’m an athletic build. 
 

I was hoping for more from this group while I work on this search and purchase, but every group has 1 right?

Check out the mirror.

You've made a grand total of 4 posts in 1 thread. The forum owes you nothing. Everything you've asked has been asked many times before. Using the search feature is much more helpful than coming in with an attitude and then chastising people.

[Falcon Man]

In an attempt to mediate the bickering - you can find lots of really good advice on this forum. Much wisdom is present here. Hopefully civility will prevail.

Mooniacs are dedicated to the brand as there is nothing in the certified aircraft  market that combines the features of a Mooney: speed, efficiency, stability as an IFR platform, good looks, dispatch ability, strength by a cromoly steel tubular frame, skins that are an airfoil - not structural, etc. In fact, there are no other designs including experimental airplanes that compare.

If you are looking for a spacious cabin for 4 people with lots of cargo, buy some this else. If you like wearing a sports car for two people and cargo, like to go fast on minimal fuel, an airplane built to protect passengers, consider a Mooney.

It's pretty simple.

Jeff

[1980Mooney]

9 hours ago, Aviationist said:

Looking at Ks. My concerns are the following -

- cabin size - I’m 6-4 240. My experience with a J was that it was difficult to get in and out of and climbing over the seat was not ideal.

thoughts?

Any Piper, Beechcraft or Mooney with origins from the 50's- 60's is designed for the FAA standard size person of the time - back then the average weight of all passengers was 155 lbs.  The Mooney POH's from the 70's-80's use 170 lbs in the Weight and Balance example calculations.  Today these planes feel tight for the average person.

And they all had one door for entry.  Climbing over the seat is a given if you want to fly General Aviation - it doesn't matter if you are tall or short, getting in and out looks like a clown car at the circus.

I have heard that even a Malibu with the big door in the rear, although great for passengers, is a pain for the pilot to climb over the seat to get in.

Cessna and the Commander 112/114 historically provided 2 doors for entry making it easier.

The alternative is something newer with 2 doors like a Cirrus, any flavor of Cessna like a 210

[Schllc]

The reality is all airplanes are relatively rare machines  

there aren’t even 300k registered piston planes in total. They will make more Toyota Camry’s this year than all the piston planes in the fleet. 
low volume creates most of the issues and that is irrespective of brand 
Yet, somehow all of these older aircraft seem to stay flying. 
Is it simple or cheap, not likely, but there is no alternative, if you want to fly, you have to accept the market for what it is. 
if you want to minimize your concern about parts you could buy a much newer plane. 

[Schllc]

2 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

I have heard that even a Malibu with the big door in the rear, although great for passengers, is a pain for the pilot to climb over the seat to get in.

I haven’t flown a Malibu but I have time in a meridian and it is NOT easy to get in and out of the front seats. 

[Aviationist]

There’s a difference between liking something and being a fanatic. One is realistic objective and healthy, the other is insanity, incapable of objective thought, and unhealthy. 
 

I asked about issues I had heard about Mooney parts and service, including my experience so far. If you find that off putting, I feel bad for you. 
 

Thank you to everyone and anyone who has contributed constructively to my topic. 
 

For a group who was described to me as knowledgeable and helpful, I am finding the overall mood of this group to be rude and combative. It’s not a helpful set of traits for those of us potentially taking interest and potentially making an investment in the machine I assume you all love. 
 

if you DO in fact want to see Mooney succeed as a company, maybe think about how you talk to and treat others. 

[TCC]

Looking at Ks. My concerns are the following -
- Parts availability. I’ve called Mooney to inquire about this and have not received any communication back. Big concern. 
 
- cabin size - I’m 6-4 240. My experience with a J was that it was difficult to get in and out of and climbing over the seat was not ideal.
 
-Maintenance - seems like some people have good luck and some others have real bad luck. 
 
thoughts?

Q1. Ask Textron about ruddevator skins, Piper about Arrow gear actuators, or Cessna about gear saddles. Everybody has issues with proprietary-ish parts.

Q2. Unless you’re looking at an Ultra, nothing’s changed here.

Q3. See Q1. Buying a used plane is more about previous owner’s(s’) attention to care more than anything else.

[Aviationist]

9 minutes ago, TCC said:

Q1. Ask Textron about ruddevator skins, Piper about Arrow gear actuators, or Cessna about gear saddles. Everybody has issues with proprietary-ish parts.

Q2. Unless you’re looking at an Ultra, nothing’s changed here.

Q3. See Q1. Buying a used plane is more about previous owner’s(s’) attention to care more than anything else.

The biggest issue I had wasn’t with the actual availability, it was more about how they can’t be bothered to return the call. 

[TCC]

The biggest issue I had wasn’t with the actual availability, it was more about how they can’t be bothered to return the call. 

Sounds like brand M isn’t what you’re looking for and that’s okay. Easy access is two doors or (some) cabin class. In piston land, that means Van’s RV-10 or Cirrus.

[Utah20Gflyer]

39 minutes ago, Aviationist said:

The biggest issue I had wasn’t with the actual availability, it was more about how they can’t be bothered to return the call. 

Most of us source parts through Lasar, MSCs and other third parties.  I’ve bought a lot of parts and have never even considered calling the factory.  I’m not saying they aren’t a good option in some situations but they just aren’t the primary source to buy parts for most Mooney owners.  
 

Almost everything firewall forward in a Mooney is standard Lycoming or Continental parts or accessories.  There are a lot of STC and aftermarket parts for the airframe.   The props are all standard issue.   I think some here are just frustrated with what they perceive as unrealistic expectations which may be unwarranted.  Many of us here have owned several airplanes and haven’t found Mooneys any more difficult to maintain than the other brands, that is my case as a former owner of a Cessna 172.  
 

My personal experience is getting an A&Ps attention is always more difficult than getting parts so that’s going to apply to any aircraft.   My dispatch rate has been excellent,  it’s only been down for annuals and panel upgrades.  
 

Last year the whole Cirrus fleet was down because of an AD and the wait to get into a shop was months.  There is no airplane that is free from the risk of significant downtime.  The vast majority of stories I hear about Mooneys being down for significant amounts of time are engine overhauls which once again apply to any airplane.  
 

If you like what a Mooney offers in capability then buy one.  If you like how a Comanche flies then buy one of those.  They all have there pros and cons.  

[PT20J]

57 minutes ago, Utah20Gflyer said:

Most of us source parts through Lasar, MSCs and other third parties.  I’ve bought a lot of parts and have never even considered calling the factory.  I’m not saying they aren’t a good option in some situations but they just aren’t the primary source to buy parts for most Mooney owners.  

Just to clarify: LASAR is a MSC just like all the others. LASAR has just emphasized parts sales more than the rest. And, you can only buy Mooney parts through a MSC. Mooney will not sell directly to owners or mechanics not affiliated with a MSC.