Insurance pain for everyone.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Justin Schmidt said:

As far as I know none of us working stiffs have received 8%+ raises over the last few years, I am sad to say.

I sure haven’t!!

[Pinecone]

Heck, not even 8% combined over more than one year.

[redbaron1982]

13 hours ago, Justin Schmidt said:

As far as I know none of us working stiffs have received 8%+ raises over the last few years, I am sad to say.

Today I got the renewal quote and it came at 5k for a Mooney M20J with 175k haul value. The aircraft is hangared.

I'm PP instrument rated with ~200 hours total and 33 in make and model.

Last year was 6.5k with 0 time in retractable/make and model. So it did go down, but I was expecting a more steep reduction, like to 3k or something like that.

I got this through Airspeed Insurance Agency broker and the quote is from Global Aerospace.

Is it reasonable? Any recommendations?

[ArtVandelay]

Today I got the renewal quote and it came at 5k for a Mooney M20J with 175k haul value. The aircraft is hangared.
I'm PP instrument rated with ~200 hours total and 33 in make and model.
Last year was 6.5k with 0 time in retractable/make and model. So it did go down, but I was expecting a more steep reduction, like to 3k or something like that.
I got this through Airspeed Insurance Agency broker and the quote is from Global Aerospace.
Is it reasonable? Any recommendations?

Only 33 Mooney hours? I think you need at least a 100 to see any substantial drop. I recommend you fly more.

[MikeOH]

Yeah, I’d bet the 33 hours is the problem

[redbaron1982]

Yeah, this year I "officially" got my Mooney around June, and after that I had some issues with it. My target is to get 10 hours / month average. So hopefully next I will get to 150 Mooney time and I might get also the Commercial license.

I expect there to see a significant decrease in price.

[Hank]

12 minutes ago, redbaron1982 said:

Yeah, this year I "officially" got my Mooney around June, and after that I had some issues with it. My target is to get 10 hours / month average. So hopefully next I will get to 150 Mooney time and I might get also the Commercial license.

I expect there to see a significant decrease in price.

My insurance dropped significantly at 100 hours in type, and again with IFR. I don't have a CPL, so can't comment about it's effects or lack thereof.

[Pinecone]

As I understand it, Commercial doesn't help much.

I saw a 10% reduction for hitting 100 hours in Make and Model.  I started with something like 1 hour Mooney time (actually Aerostar 220 ), but lots of retract time

[Hank]

2 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

As I understand it, Commercial doesn't help much.

I saw a 10% reduction for hitting 100 hours in Make and Model.  I started with something like 1 hour Mooney time (actually Aerostar 220 ), but lots of retract time

Times have changed. I hit 100 Mooney hours at 162 hours total time in 2008, with the Mooney my only retract. My premiums went down 43%; two years later when I completed IFR, premiums went down another 45%. But now, I'm right back at my VFR with 100 Mooney hours rate. The times, they are a-changing . . . . .

[Parker_Woodruff]

10 hours ago, redbaron1982 said:

Today I got the renewal quote and it came at 5k for a Mooney M20J with 175k haul value. The aircraft is hangared.

I'm PP instrument rated with ~200 hours total and 33 in make and model.

Last year was 6.5k with 0 time in retractable/make and model. So it did go down, but I was expecting a more steep reduction, like to 3k or something like that.

I got this through Airspeed Insurance Agency broker and the quote is from Global Aerospace.

Is it reasonable? Any recommendations?

If you can get to 50 RG and 50 MM before renewal that might help.  Not sure how many days you have till renewal...

[Parker_Woodruff]

As a general statement:

Newer airframes are still flat on insurance pricing (really, they've barely gone up at all (if any) the past few years).  Older airframes slowed with the increases this year.

The only pilot group that has *consistently* received increases the past year and a half is the lower time pilots, especially those with under 200 hours total and especially those with low RG time.

[Tim-37419]

This is also my first year with my Mooney. Last year I paid 1200 for my RV7A, the Mooney was 4K! I am 500+ total and at the time was 0MM and 0RG. I’m up to 85 hours in the Mooney and will finish my instrument rating well before renewal, that will put me well over 100 in MM. I’m trying to keep my expectation low on the renewal but I am not sure I’ll write another check for 4K.

[ArtVandelay]

This is also my first year with my Mooney. Last year I paid 1200 for my RV7A, the Mooney was 4K! I am 500+ total and at the time was 0MM and 0RG. I’m up to 85 hours in the Mooney and will finish my instrument rating well before renewal, that will put me well over 100 in MM. I’m trying to keep my expectation low on the renewal but I am not sure I’ll write another check for 4K.

It’s hard to judge insurance premiums without knowing the hull values, I would expect your next premium to be sub 3K. And I don’t blame you, if my premium goes up to 4K or more, I will need to rethink my options.

[Fly Boomer]

On 11/15/2023 at 7:04 AM, JayMatt said:

The FAA screwed me on my medical so I couldn't fly a couple months and I'm not at the 100 hour mark. Mine just went up to 4200 a year. (noob pilot) 

 I came to revive this thread so I could bit@h about the increases. I've been looking at Mooney prices and if anything they are going down again aren't they? Inflation is really starting to hurt to be honest and it's so bloody expensive to do anything. 

I agree that airplane prices seem to be softening a little.  Almost everything that was driven up by inflation is trying to stay up.  Car gas is the only thing in my life that seems to ride the supply and demand roller coaster -- down more than a dollar per gallon in the midwest recently.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, Fly Boomer said:

Car gas is the only thing in my life that seems to ride the supply and demand roller coaster -- down more than a dollar per gallon in the midwest recently.

It just rides it very inaccurately to maximize oil company profits. When oil prices rise, that expensive oil is being loaded into a tanker in the middle east. It then has to transit the Red Sea, then either the Indian and Pacific Oceans, or go down the coast of Africa, around the Cape and up / across the Atlantic for unloading and refining. Then it is distributed to your and my local stations.

But as soon as the price of oil rises, gas prices go up, and they sell gas already made from cheap oil at expensive oil prices. When oil prices decline, there is a delay to allow for the steps above, so that they don't sell cheap gas made from expensive oil. Some things just rub me wrong!

[Fly Boomer]

10 minutes ago, Hank said:

It just rides it very inaccurately to maximize oil company profits. When oil prices rise, that expensive oil is being loaded into a tanker in the middle east. It then has to transit the Red Sea, then either the Indian and Pacific Oceans, or go down the coast of Africa, around the Cape and up / across the Atlantic for unloading and refining. Then it is distributed to your and my local stations.

But as soon as the price of oil rises, gas prices go up, and they sell gas already made from cheap oil at expensive oil prices. When oil prices decline, there is a delay to allow for the steps above, so that they don't sell cheap gas made from expensive oil. Some things just rub me wrong!

I think they have figured out we can't get along without the stuff.  At least it goes down under some circumstances -- food, rent, insurance, utilities don't ever seem to retreat.

[JayMatt]

On 11/15/2023 at 3:07 PM, A64Pilot said:

The boom is over and people are borrowed to the hilt etc. to maintain lifestyle as spending power dwindled.

https://www.lendingtree.com/credit-cards/credit-card-debt-statistics/

Many who are still working have had their income increase quite possibly wiping out the increased costs of everything, while those of us who are Retired living off of investments and a retirement income are taking it in the shorts.

Point being is Luxury items like aircraft, vacation homes, RV’s, boats whatever have in the past been among the first things that get difficult to sell in tight times when most would be buyers can’t afford them.

I’m just surprised it took this long, the writing has been on the wall for quite some time. I bought when prices were high, but not at the peak. Best thing I think we can do is ride it out, RV’s, boats, airplanes have never been a good investment anyway.

THIS!

I'm actually shocked we are still going strong. I'm by no means rich and I do feel inflation, but I'm fortunate enough to mange money well enough that I can afford my plane. I watch people buy stuff I know first hand they can't afford. Credit card debt is through the roof just so people can go out to eat. Breakfast is darn near 50$ now for 2 people. Good time to have cash on hand.

Maybe people will vote a little better when they realize all that free money ruined their chance at the American dream. 

[NewMoon]

On 11/5/2023 at 5:15 PM, ragedracer1977 said:

Same here.  Insurance went down 10%, hull value went up 20%.

what model Mooney and who is the carrier?

[Pinecone]

4 hours ago, JayMatt said:

Maybe people will vote a little better when they realize all that free money ruined their chance at the American dream. 

Unfortunately, I doubt that many will realize it and listen to the lies of free money.

[ragedracer1977]

9 hours ago, NewMoon said:

what model Mooney and who is the carrier?

One with two turbocharged engines called a Cessna T310R  
 

National Union Fire/AIG is the company.

[EricJ]

3 hours ago, ragedracer1977 said:

One with two turbocharged engines called a Cessna T310R  
 

National Union Fire/AIG is the company.

Was that through TJ?

[ragedracer1977]

49 minutes ago, EricJ said:

Was that through TJ?

Yes

[hubcap]

Just received my renewal and thanks to @Parker_Woodruff I was happy with the renewal. I did have a year over year price increase, but I did increase the hull value due to Myrtle's recent avionics upgrade. Personally, I have 800 hrs,  Instrument rated and fly 100-150 hrs year. Comparatively speaking, I feel like plane insurance is a bargain compared to what I pay for my business insurance.

[MikeOH]

Another happy shout-out to @Parker_Woodruff.  Premium actually went down a few bucks this year for the same coverage

[RescueMunchkin]

New Mooney F owner here and I went with Avemco. $3.7k with 95k hull value for my first year with 5 hours tt in complex, 0 time in make/model.  Got my instrument rating a week after purchase and they dropped my premium to $3.4k.

I'm still in my 10 hour dual instruction probation period but plan to get my time up quickly after that...weather in the PNW hasn't been cooperating.

I got a quote from a different broker (BWI) and they wanted $5.7k when I was first shopping around.

Edited November 30, 2023 by RescueMunchkin