Advancing age and insurance

[Falcon Man]

I recently turned 71 and wondering at what age I might expect to not being insurable. Does anyone have info on this?

Jeff

[Skates97]

@Parker_Woodruff is probably the best source. (And also the best agent )

[Danb]

Crap shoot Jeff I’m 75 my insurance company wanted me to fly with another pilot or instructor, I sold my plane then Brown insurance covered me as long as I get an annual IPC. so I had to buy another plane. I didn’t change insurance companies for over 10 years which didn’t matter. I don’t think there’s any concrete rules they seem to fly by the seat of there pants.

[Falcon Man]

Seems to be the world we live in now!

[Mooneymite]

I think you can get full insurance well past 75, but the cost and conditions just get to be "not worth it" anymore.  I had three strikes against insuring my two airplanes:  (1) Retract, (2) on grass and (3) my other airplane was a taildragger experimental.  25 years of Mooney ownership and 33,200 accident/incident free hours did not impress the underwriter.

[rturbett]

Not sure why an insurance company would reward youth and inexperience.......

[wombat]

They don't.

[LANCECASPER]

23 minutes ago, rturbett said:

Not sure why an insurance company would reward youth and inexperience.......

The only reason I can see that they might reward youth is even if the company pays out a claim they'll still have a good chance at another 40 years worth of premiums.

[Stan]

Here I go again.  I just received the Aviation Insurance Application from my broker.  The renewal comes up in Jan, I will turn 75 in April, I flew about 100 hours last year, with an IPC and Biannual (or whatever they call it now) on the log.  The wait (like for compression numbers) begins!

[Larry]

Stan -

You may want to try Avemco.  I understand they won't cancel you for age, but you must start with them before some magic age or being cancelled.

Larry

[EricJ]

I had asked my insurance guy about this a while back and at that time the wisdom was just to keep the same carrier past a certain age.    In other words, we shop value up to a point, and then stick with whoever makes sense when it comes time.    I'm not near that age yet, apparently, and he said they watch out for that so would let me know when it came time.   Whether that's still the situation when that time comes will be evaluated then, I suppose.   The situation seems to evolve with time.

[Danb]

1 hour ago, Stan said:

Here I go again.  I just received the Aviation Insurance Application from my broker.  The renewal comes up in Jan, I will turn 75 in April, I flew about 100 hours last year, with an IPC and Biannual (or whatever they call it now) on the log.  The wait (like for compression numbers) begins!

Good luck Stan, I went through that last year, with a lot of turmoil and unrest

[buddy]

Brown has required an IPC annually for the past few years and I finally switched over to the them 2yrs ago. Brown has always had lower premiums. I have 6,000+ hours and just turned 71, it doesn’t seem like loyalty matters anymore.

[Danb]

Buddy I think loyalty isn’t highly regarded either, being with Old Republic for over a decade did no good, I only wish I knew about Brown before selling my plane. Gotta make the most out of the years we have left..

[whiskytango]

I am already at 75, gusting to 76, and just got a quote for renewal.  There was a 10% premium increase, which I attribute more to the current hard market than my age, and no additional requirements other than the Flight Review every 2 years and valid 3rd class medical.  I did not see any increase other than inflation when turned 75.  I have been with USAIG for about 15 years. YMMV.

[Parker_Woodruff]

There is a strategy to the age thing. There aren’t any guarantees, but any experienced light aircraft insurance broker can lay out a good plan.

[Falcon Man]

I spoke with my broker for insurance today and he related that my insurer Global Insurance has not cancelled any of his clients due to age. At age 80 they usually ask for an annual exam for 3rd class medical and an annual flight review if VFR and IPC if flying IFR. He also said shopping around after any company has put restrictions is a warning flag from insurers point of view

[Shadrach]

On 10/31/2023 at 5:59 PM, Mooneymite said:

I think you can get full insurance well past 75, but the cost and conditions just get to be "not worth it" anymore.  I had three strikes against insuring my two airplanes:  (1) Retract, (2) on grass and (3) my other airplane was a taildragger experimental.  25 years of Mooney ownership and 33,200 accident/incident free hours did not impress the underwriter.

Interesting. It seems to me the low powered tail dragger set is the oldest group around my drome. We I know of 2 guys in there late 70s. One flys a Daphne that he built himself and the other flies a Decathlon and also a pitts S2B (recently sold).

[PT20J]

According to GAMA https://gama.aero/wp-content/uploads/GAMA_2019Databook_Final-2020-03-20.pdf, the average pilot age is: private 48.3; commercial 45.9; ATP 50.8.

It would seem to be a reasonable assumption that the average age of pilots that own aircraft would be higher than the general pilot population.

[PT20J]

4 minutes ago, 1980Mooney said:

Agreed - but Mooney owners may be even older.  It is just gut but I bet younger pilots are disproportionately in 172's and Cherokee's 

And Cirrus -- I see a lot of younger pilots with money buying Cirrus.

[LANCECASPER]

5 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Do you really think that there are that many young Mooney pilots? I think that the age distribution of Mooney pilots is predominantly old and getting older. We just don't recognize it. (or don't want to admit it)

Not necessarily, but I wasn't referring to Mooney pilots specifically but pilots in general. The same principle I mentioned I think applies across the board for insurance companies. They have more years to collect premiums to offset losses no matter what the pilot flies. Every online aviation forum has a discussion about insurance and ages and ability to get insurance.

[Hank]

4 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Agreed - but Mooney owners may be even older.  It is just gut but I bet younger pilots are disproportionately in 172's and Cherokee's 

I earned my PPL and bought my Mooney at 44, helping to lower the averages.

[Danb]

Hank there’s contrarians everywhere hang in there D

[Fly Boomer]

6 hours ago, 1980Mooney said:

Why are the older and in general more experienced, more long-time Mooney owners responsible for more than 2/3's of the fatal crashes?  Why does it appear that older pilots "disproportionately" crash more often?  Is "age and experience" over-hyped? 

"Age" and "years flying" and "hours in logbook" don't necessarily add up to "good pilot".

[Culver LFA]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

I earned my PPL and bought my Mooney at 44, helping to lower the averages.

I was 38 when I bought my Mooney, I’m 48 now with ATP and 2 type ratings yet have only seen annual increases in rates every year.  I was once told by my agent that the rates would have gone up more without the experience and additional ratings so I guess I’m fortunate!