Original ferry tank connection

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I have been invited to join another Mooney pilot in an epic trip from Australia to Vanuatu. Island hopping via Lord Howe and Norfolk Island. Should be great, just don't look down.

He's in a C model, I'm in an E, both with the smaller tanks with total 4.5 hrs endurance The longest leg is 3.5hrs (planning at 140 to be safe), so it CAN be done, but it would be lots nicer to have another hour of fuel on board. 

I can buy a turtle pac ferry tank easy enough, but they advised to plumb it in via an external line to a fuel cap.

I spoke to my mechanic about it and he pointed out that all the early Mooneys in Australia were flown out with ferry tanks. So there is probably an existing connection point that just got capped off and if we knew where it is we could use that. 

So my question is: does anyone know how the original ferry tanks were plumbed in, and would that point still be accessible 60 years later?

Thanks

[Oscar Avalle]

58 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

That’s a good question. I would assume that the easiest would be some sort of “T” fitting at the outlet of one of the main fuel tanks behind the side upholstery.

What is the distance you will fly?  Look up another famous Aussie, Jon Johannson and his RV4.

Mine had originally the fuel line routed over the wing. Looked strange to say the least.  I did not like the set up.
 

Now it has a T fitting at the outlet and the tubing is not visible.

I use my 20 gal turtle tank each time I do a longer x-country flight around the Americas. I love it. The only issue I would be careful is the connection between the tank and the outlet. I tends to leak a little bit and you get some nasty fuel smell.

 

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Thanks for all the info,

Longest leg will be 484nm, so possible but better with extra fuel.

I'm sure Jon Johannson would have done it no worries, but I'm not quite as mad as he must have been.

@Oscar Avalle, thanks, thats very helpful. That looks like the original hose would have added some drag? Any noticeable effect?

When you added the T, how did you get it certified? Do you have any photos of that?

Thanks. I'll post some pics of the islands when we go. 

[Yetti]

My F will go 1100 miles at the low power setting.  No I don't want to sit for that long.    There is a piece of rubber hose behind the side panels to each tank.   A brass T , a valve and some clamps would make for an easy hook up.

[McMooney]

450 miles is my normal ifr leg length,  484 miles i wouldn't worry about a ferry tank unless fuel isn't avail at your dest

[Joshua Blackh4t]

14 minutes ago, McMooney said:

450 miles is my normal ifr leg length,  484 miles i wouldn't worry about a ferry tank unless fuel isn't avail at your dest

Miles or nautical miles?

The problem with island hopping is that there is only one runway within 400 miles, so holding fuel is a good idea. Also, if there are unexpected headwinds or clouds, the extra will be great.

34 minutes ago, Yetti said:

My F will go 1100 miles at the low power setting.  No I don't want to sit for that long.    There is a piece of rubber hose behind the side panels to each tank.   A brass T , a valve and some clamps would make for an easy hook up.

That makes me jealous and want long range tanks.

Yeah, problem is that there is a shortage of T pieces with an STC for being installed for a ferry tank. So it would need an engineering order which takes time and money.

I was hoping possibly they did all that when they flew it out brand new and left the t piece there.

I'll have a look behind the side panels.

[McMooney]

4 hours ago, McMooney said:

450 miles is my normal ifr leg length,  484 miles i wouldn't worry about a ferry tank unless fuel isn't avail at your dest

 

nm funny,

planning for the long range tanks but currently the E only holds 52 gallons.

when flying distance( travelling ) i'm usually flying between 8 and 11k feet and well under 10gph, usually peak or just LOP.

my most common trip usually sees me stopping in millington which is almost exactly 450 nm.

 least gas required was 26 gallons most was 39(dodging thunderstorms and headwinds)

average is right around 32 gallons with a slight headwind, leaving 2 more hours of flight time in the tanks.

now when i really want to get frugal, i run her LOP up high and around 8ish gallons per hour, slow but man you can cover some distance

Edited July 17, 2023 by McMooney

[Joshua Blackh4t]

Thats impressive, but there is a lot of ground under you with other airports just in case.

I'm just very conservative, especially since I only just has a fuel flow installed and can actually see how much is being used.

I plan on 40 litres per hour, plus 10 for climb and taxi. In gallons that would be just over 10 plus 2.5.

So that gives me 4.5 hrs. And at 9500 I true about 155kts without pushing it so no problems

But because I'm vfr and have to go around clouds, I plan on 140kts. Also, if I'm pushed down low with a headwind, I can be down to 130kts. I did one recently that was about 105kts GS and a 30 mile detour.

So I play it safe and like to have an hour spare when weather is against me. 

So, 40 litre ferry tank

[M20F]

The guy who flew cross country (US) non stop I want to say burned 4.5gph.  You can stretch the range quite a bit if you are willing to trade time. 

[Oscar Avalle]

19 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

Thanks for all the info,

Longest leg will be 484nm, so possible but better with extra fuel.

I'm sure Jon Johannson would have done it no worries, but I'm not quite as mad as he must have been.

@Oscar Avalle, thanks, thats very helpful. That looks like the original hose would have added some drag? Any noticeable effect?

When you added the T, how did you get it certified? Do you have any photos of that?

Thanks. I'll post some pics of the islands when we go. 

It added some drag and some nervousness factor. 
 

oscar 

[Oscar Avalle]

It added some drag and some nervousness factor. 

On the T, as I took it our after using it for my ferry flight I will see if I have some pictures.
 
oscar 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Joshua Blackh4t]

5 minutes ago, M20Doc said:

I wonder if you can find the original N number for your plane, or any other Mooney flown to Australia, then search the FAA records to get a copy of the 337 form filed when the ferry tank was installed?  It may provide some details for you

That's an idea, there might be something in the maintenance logs. 

Its a very thick folder and I'm a bad person and never looked at them. ( When I bought the plane the price was right for the condition and after that it kept flying fine and I never needed to look).

My mechanic has them, I'll visit him later this week.

6 hours ago, Oscar Avalle said:

It added some drag and some nervousness factor. 
 

oscar 

I can imagine telling passengers that the duct tape is legal but a neat hose fitting is not legal. The risks we are forced to take in the name of safety...

[Pinecone]

1 hour ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

I can imagine telling passengers that the duct tape is legal but a neat hose fitting is not legal. The risks we are forced to take in the name of REGULATIONS...

FTFY

[Aerodon]

I've never understood this.  The authorities really don't want you touching the original fuel system, so you end up with all these goofy mcgyver solutions into the fuel caps, breathers and even fuel drains.  I'm sure they have caused just as many accidents as they have 'saved' by not messing with the OEM setup.

I get it, you don't want to be using you aux fuel directly to the engine, because no one has tested it in flight (and what about the return flow).  But what is wrong with T-ing into the LHS fuel and only filling the LH tank when you are using the RH tank?

Second best - use internal piping to the fuel vent inside the wing.  Then install a temporary vent that takes care of you wing tank as well as the auxiliary tank.  Cessna's have 'vacuum relief' built into the caps, but I think you need to ensure that you do not allow a vacuum collapse of a Mooney tank.

Aerodon