New Levels In Aeronautical Rudeness

[GeeBee]

 I am returning from Baltimore. I took my grandson home and bring back my grand daughter. It is cloudy enough I have to do an instrument approach, easy peasy, I break out at 2000'. Gainesville, GA is an uncontrolled field so I am broadcasting on common frequency. There are two other trainers in the pattern, I am straight in on the instrument approach. I begin broadcasting, 10 miles out. "Gainesville traffic, Mooney 192JK 10 miles out for 23. I then broadcast at 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 mile positions. The trainers touch down well ahead of my arrival. As I am 1 mile final, a Cessna Skylane announces he is taking the runway for takeoff. I said, "Skylane, please don't do that there is a Mooney short final". He continues, I said, "Skylane at Gainesville STOP!" He takes the runway anyway. By this time I have no choice but to execute a go around. I move slightly to the right of the runway so I can see and avoid him as he lifts off. He then realizes what he did and says, "Oh sorry, my bad". I said, "I only called 6 times and you specifically two times". He says, "Hey buddy, we all make mistakes, OK?" I said, "I see you can transmit, but you don't listen". Then it happened. I heard "squiggle tones" in my headset. The master warning flashes, I look over at the annunciator panel knowing what I will see. "LOW VOLTS" Yep, alternator failure. Reset is no help and I land.

So I need a new alternator pronto. I have more flying I need to do. There are no new ones anywhere, despite eye watering prices. There are some rebuilds from dubious suppliers and there is the Plane Power ALV-9610, brand new from Spruce. Not my first choice but I figure I will pay the core, keep my old alternator and have it rebuilt by a reputable shop then place it on the shelf in case the Plane Power unit fails to meet expectations. I also order in a new coupler as well.

I spend most the day Monday in my mechanic’s shop at the other end of the airport getting the new unit installed. Around 1600 I pull out of the shop. Alternator works good. I taxi back to my hangar. As I look down the alley I see my next door neighbor has his Cirrus blocking the alley. So I pull off to the end of the hangars to let him out and get out my Sidewinder to push down the alley to my hangar. He taxis by and waves. I start to push down the alley when I see he has left his SUV parked blocking my hangar! I run into my hangar and grab the portable VHF and try to call him. No response. An hour later he rolls into the pattern on downwind. I call him and ask “Are you full stop?” He relies affirmative and I say, “Good you can move your car blocking my hangar. “ He pulls up and jumps out and says “Oh I am really sorry”. I say “Ok” as I am really angry,. He then comes back again and says “I am really sorry, we just went for a short test hop”. I said, “Apology accepted, but I am not saying anything more for fear of regretting my my words.” I left it at that. 
 

What is going on? A lot of rudeness and failure to listen, think and contemplate actions out there!

[carusoam]

1) One was cognitively overloaded…

2) The other one got caught being self centered…

3) Nobody likes getting caught being either…

4) How they react gives insight into their soul…

5) How we react gives insight into our own souls… 

6) It’s not always easy to be able to say the right thing after all of that…

7) Sometimes being quiet is the best some can do…

 

8) I lose control at the keyboard, under less stressful situations that…. 

9) Its fun when you have the experience bucket more full than empty…

10) Thanks for sharing your experience…

My home drome has plenty of training going on especially on weekends…

Best regards,

-a-

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

What is going on? A lot of rudeness and failure to listen, think and contemplate actions out there!

Putty where brain is supposed to be.

[icurnmedic]

Doing a 10 minute run up in front of my hanger seems to be the norm when im tryng to put my plane up, SMH.   Would like to say this is isolated, but truth is , these things  happen in all walks of life. It just seems magnified when interjected with flying. Glad it worked out for you. 

[Echo]

Humans...

[ilovecornfields]

@GeeBee, your level of restraint is impressive. I also have a Cirrus driver that thinks he owns the taxilane and seems completely oblivious to the concept that others may want to use that space as well. I remember one particular day when I was trying to leave with my family and he and his passengers seemed oblivious to this fact - after about 40 minutes I asked him “Should I help you push your plane out of the way or are you going to do it yourself?” He got the point.

Any benefit to filing a NASA report or writing it up for the airport newsletter?

[KSMooniac]

It might be fun to borrow a tug and drag his vehicle in front of his hangar sometime, and I bet he'll never do it again.  

I also thought it was common courtesy to leave a car unlocked with keys in it if parked in a hangar row as well, at least at a "secured" airport.

[Pinecone]

Came back in one evening and guy in the next hangar had his vehicle in front of my hangar and about 10 - 15 feet out.   

I sat there for a while thinking maybe he would hear the engine.  Finally shut down and had to go into his hangar to get his attention.  Good thing I have a Sidewinder.

As time goes on I find that most people are morons.

 

Another time pulled up to the pump, a Cirrus was parked there.  They climbed in as I headed in to hit the restroom while I waited.  I heard him start the engine as I went into the FBO.  I used the rest room, came out and he was still sitting there with the engine running.  I waited a bit to not walk near while he was running.  Finally walked past, got in my plane, started and taxied away and he was still sitting there.  

[N201MKTurbo]

Unfortunately we can't control other people. It would sometimes be great if we could. All we can do is control our own anger. 

I think the plague of modern rudeness manifests itself more on the road than at the airport.

[EricJ]

If your alternator had failed and the battery was drooping your transmit power may have been low, so the others may not have been able to hear you as well.   It's not an excuse to not do a visual check for landing aircraft before entering a runway, though.

The blocked alley thing happens at a lot of airport hangar rows, and we do the dance in our alley all the time, because we have a fence at one end and only one way in and out.   Blocking somebody else's hangar door is a bit much, though.

One of my peeves is that the washrack is *always* empty *except* when I want to wash my airplane.   I don't know how people coordinate that, but they're consistent about it. 

[GeeBee]

7 minutes ago, EricJ said:

If your alternator had failed and the battery was drooping your transmit power may have been low, so the others may not have been able to hear you as well.   It's not an excuse to not do a visual check for landing aircraft before entering a runway, though.

The blocked alley thing happens at a lot of airport hangar rows, and we do the dance in our alley all the time, because we have a fence at one end and only one way in and out.   Blocking somebody else's hangar door is a bit much, though.

One of my peeves is that the washrack is *always* empty *except* when I want to wash my airplane.   I don't know how people coordinate that, but they're consistent about it. 

No my alternator and voltage was fine until the go around and he heard me because at 1500’ I canceled IFR with ATL approach on the other radio. In addition his response indicated he heard me.

[DXB]

4 hours ago, GeeBee said:

 I am returning from Baltimore. I took my grandson home and bring back my grand daughter. It is cloudy enough I have to do an instrument approach, easy peasy, I break out at 2000'. Gainesville, GA is an uncontrolled field so I am broadcasting on common frequency. There are two other trainers in the pattern, I am straight in on the instrument approach. I begin broadcasting, 10 miles out. "Gainesville traffic, Mooney 192JK 10 miles out for 23. I then broadcast at 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 mile positions. The trainers touch down well ahead of my arrival. As I am 1 mile final, a Cessna Skylane announces he is taking the runway for takeoff. I said, "Skylane, please don't do that there is a Mooney short final". He continues, I said, "Skylane at Gainesville STOP!" He takes the runway anyway. By this time I have no choice but to execute a go around. I move slightly to the right of the runway so I can see and avoid him as he lifts off. He then realizes what he did and says, "Oh sorry, my bad". I said, "I only called 6 times and you specifically two times". He says, "Hey buddy, we all make mistakes, OK?" I said, "I see you can transmit, but you don't listen". Then it happened. I heard "squiggle tones" in my headset. The master warning flashes, I look over at the annunciator panel knowing what I will see. "LOW VOLTS" Yep, alternator failure. Reset is no help and I land.

So I need a new alternator pronto. I have more flying I need to do. There are no new ones anywhere, despite eye watering prices. There are some rebuilds from dubious suppliers and there is the Plane Power ALV-9610, brand new from Spruce. Not my first choice but I figure I will pay the core, keep my old alternator and have it rebuilt by a reputable shop then place it on the shelf in case the Plane Power unit fails to meet expectations. I also order in a new coupler as well.

I spend most the day Monday in my mechanic’s shop at the other end of the airport getting the new unit installed. Around 1600 I pull out of the shop. Alternator works good. I taxi back to my hangar. As I look down the alley I see my next door neighbor has his Cirrus blocking the alley. So I pull off to the end of the hangars to let him out and get out my Sidewinder to push down the alley to my hangar. He taxis by and waves. I start to push down the alley when I see he has left his SUV parked blocking my hangar! I run into my hangar and grab the portable VHF and try to call him. No response. An hour later he rolls into the pattern on downwind. I call him and ask “Are you full stop?” He relies affirmative and I say, “Good you can move your car blocking my hangar. “ He pulls up and jumps out and says “Oh I am really sorry”. I say “Ok” as I am really angry,. He then comes back again and says “I am really sorry, we just went for a short test hop”. I said, “Apology accepted, but I am not saying anything more for fear of regretting my my words.” I left it at that. 
 

What is going on? A lot of rudeness and failure to listen, think and contemplate actions out there!

Hard to believe a Cirrus pilot would behave that way.  That community has an impeccable reputation.  

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, Pinecone said:

Good thing I have a Sidewinder.

Seems like overkill, don’t you think? A 12 ga would get the job done with much less collateral damage.

[Schllc]

7 hours ago, GeeBee said:

 I am returning from Baltimore. I took my grandson home and bring back my grand daughter. It is cloudy enough I have to do an instrument approach, easy peasy, I break out at 2000'. Gainesville, GA is an uncontrolled field so I am broadcasting on common frequency. There are two other trainers in the pattern, I am straight in on the instrument approach. I begin broadcasting, 10 miles out. "Gainesville traffic, Mooney 192JK 10 miles out for 23. I then broadcast at 5, 4, 3, 2 and 1 mile positions. The trainers touch down well ahead of my arrival. As I am 1 mile final, a Cessna Skylane announces he is taking the runway for takeoff. I said, "Skylane, please don't do that there is a Mooney short final". He continues, I said, "Skylane at Gainesville STOP!" He takes the runway anyway. By this time I have no choice but to execute a go around. I move slightly to the right of the runway so I can see and avoid him as he lifts off. He then realizes what he did and says, "Oh sorry, my bad". I said, "I only called 6 times and you specifically two times". He says, "Hey buddy, we all make mistakes, OK?" I said, "I see you can transmit, but you don't listen". Then it happened. I heard "squiggle tones" in my headset. The master warning flashes, I look over at the annunciator panel knowing what I will see. "LOW VOLTS" Yep, alternator failure. Reset is no help and I land.

So I need a new alternator pronto. I have more flying I need to do. There are no new ones anywhere, despite eye watering prices. There are some rebuilds from dubious suppliers and there is the Plane Power ALV-9610, brand new from Spruce. Not my first choice but I figure I will pay the core, keep my old alternator and have it rebuilt by a reputable shop then place it on the shelf in case the Plane Power unit fails to meet expectations. I also order in a new coupler as well.

I spend most the day Monday in my mechanic’s shop at the other end of the airport getting the new unit installed. Around 1600 I pull out of the shop. Alternator works good. I taxi back to my hangar. As I look down the alley I see my next door neighbor has his Cirrus blocking the alley. So I pull off to the end of the hangars to let him out and get out my Sidewinder to push down the alley to my hangar. He taxis by and waves. I start to push down the alley when I see he has left his SUV parked blocking my hangar! I run into my hangar and grab the portable VHF and try to call him. No response. An hour later he rolls into the pattern on downwind. I call him and ask “Are you full stop?” He relies affirmative and I say, “Good you can move your car blocking my hangar. “ He pulls up and jumps out and says “Oh I am really sorry”. I say “Ok” as I am really angry,. He then comes back again and says “I am really sorry, we just went for a short test hop”. I said, “Apology accepted, but I am not saying anything more for fear of regretting my my words.” I left it at that. 
 

What is going on? A lot of rudeness and failure to listen, think and contemplate actions out there!

This is a typical occurrence at uncontrolled fields in my experience. 
I had a crop duster take off with a tailwind while I was less than 300’ from the threshold.
I saw the guys face.

If it had not been a turbine with the power to peel off we would have collided. I made all the calls, I circled the field, landed on the correct runway for the wind, and he ignored it all. 
I had my whole family on board. I was beyond angry and when I shut the plane down I was shaking with rage.  It is a good thing he didn’t come back until after I left. 
I called the FAA and explained what happened to an investigator. 
They called the other pilot and he confirmed everything I said and apologized. 
The FAA then called me back and said no further action bc no one did anything wrong. 
I said, in much more colorful terms, that the investigator was an idiot, and if I see a plane close enough to make out his face, taking off in the opposite direction as I am landing then SOMEONE did something wrong!

I really do try to avoid uncontrolled fields when I can. 

[Fly Boomer]

1 hour ago, Schllc said:

I really do try to avoid uncontrolled fields when I can. 

That's a good strategy, but it seems that an increasing number of screw-ups happen at controlled fields.

[Schllc]

1 minute ago, Fly Boomer said:

That's a good strategy, but it seems that an increasing number of screw-ups happen at controlled fields.

I’ve never had one at a controlled field. Not even close. 
Every single one I’ve had had been at uncontrolled. 
Be it lack of awareness, stupidity, inexperience, lack of proficiency, or just being an ahole, I’ve seen them all at uncontrolled fields. 
My theory is that those kinds of people prefer uncontrolled fields. 
Not that everyone at uncontrolled dromes are like that, just the ones that are prefer them. 

[Rwsavory]

I understand being frustrated with the mistakes of others, but we shouldn't let our emotions get the better of us. Also, it's not a good idea to castigate people on the radio. I've had plenty of people do stupid and silly stuff in front of me at uncontrolled airports. It just comes with the territory. If you find yourself getting "really angry" it's time to seek some perspective, imho. Flying is supposed to be fun. 

[EricJ]

19 minutes ago, Schllc said:

I’ve never had one at a controlled field. Not even close. 

They happen all the time.    I was cleared onto the runway when there was an aircraft on short final.   I just didn't respond and waited and it sorted itself out.    I was cleared to land #2 behind an airplane that was two minutes ahead of me, too far away for me to see, but how can a two minute separation get screwed up?    He extended his downwind by a minute, so burned up that two minute separation so that when I turned final (still didn't see him) he was immediately in front of me (and I mean, CLOSE).   D'oh.    I could go on, but stuff like this happens all the time, especially at busy fields, even if you have really good controllers.

[Fly Boomer]

3 minutes ago, Rwsavory said:

If you find yourself getting "really angry" it's time to seek some perspective, imho. Flying is supposed to be fun. 

For me, it has been getting easier as the years go by.

[N201MKTurbo]

4 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Seems like overkill, don’t you think? A 12 ga would get the job done with much less collateral damage.

Not to mention the cost! Sidewinders are $100,000. How much is a shotgun shell these days $0.75?

[carusoam]

Is it tradition to mount the Sidewinder from the tie down under the wing?

More ready to deploy than in the baggage area…

-a-

[aviatoreb]

16 hours ago, KSMooniac said:

It might be fun to borrow a tug and drag his vehicle in front of his hangar sometime, and I bet he'll never do it again.  

I also thought it was common courtesy to leave a car unlocked with keys in it if parked in a hangar row as well, at least at a "secured" airport.

tug his airplane someplace out of sight!  ...where did I park my airplane again?

Yes around my parts unless a car is really out of the way a parked car should have the keys in it - like on the dash easy to see.

[GeeBee]

Yeah, I looked for keys thinking, "No one can be this stupid", but I was wrong. He took the keys with him. The thing is, there is a parking area 200' away which is where I park my vehicle, unless I am going to be gone overnight then I park it in my hangar. There was no excuse here other than being rude and inconsiderate. 

 

[cbarry]

It all started in the garden and accelerated with the “selfie!” The  self centered only understand rudimentary redirection.  I used to say that Cowboy (before he passed), my border collie, was smarter that 95% of the people on the planet and, yet,  he still wasn’t a biter.  
 

 

[Pinecone]

17 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Seems like overkill, don’t you think? A 12 ga would get the job done with much less collateral damage.

Use what you have.  A kill's a kill.

When I flew the A-10, when we landed to the NW, the disarm area had us pointing down the one parallel taxiway (see KMTN).    We would announce to tower when we checked in if we were disarming the guns, so they would keep that taxiway clear.  No real reason for civilian aircraft to be on that side, there is a parallel on the other side.

So we land and are in the disarming area.  A Piper lands and turns off the runway the wrong way.  Tower tells him to hold short of the parallel and he ignores and rolls out.  Tower calls us to stop disarm work due to the Piper.  A voice says, "We'll take them any way we can."  (We are on UHF, tower is on UHF and VHF, Piper is on VHF so only hears tower side.)  Tower asks, "Say Again."  Voice says, "A kill's a kill."  Tower SCREAMS, "Piper 1234 turn right IMMEDIATELY at the next taxiway.