LED Position, Rotating Beacon and Landing Light Update Wanted

[outermarker]

I have read through old posts on LED upgrades. Well, technology changes, and to some degree, the FAA moves in the name of safety. So, for those of us like me who are ready to convert to LED lighting, what is the latest update? Can the change be made with a logbook entry? Do I have to have an IA file a 337? Is it technically an illegal modification but the FAA will look the other way in the name of safety and it takes forever to make a regulation change?

I would like to convert a 65'E during the next annual inspection. Whose product would you recommend and have confidence in? What is the good, bad, and ugly? Technology is changing so rapidly that LED lights even three years ago seem to be inferior today. Photos and/or videos would be great for all of us too!

thanks!

[Fly Boomer]

2 minutes ago, outermarker said:

I have read through old posts on LED upgrades. Well, technology changes, and to some degree, the FAA moves in the name of safety. So, for those of us like me who are ready to convert to LED lighting, what is the latest update? Can the change be made with a logbook entry? Do I have to have an IA file a 337? Is it technically an illegal modification but the FAA will look the other way in the name of safety and it takes forever to make a regulation change?

I would like to convert a 65'E during the next annual inspection. Whose product would you recommend and have confidence in? What is the good, bad, and ugly? Technology is changing so rapidly that LED lights even three years ago seem to be inferior today. Photos and/or videos would be great for all of us too!

thanks!

I have not made the jump to light speed yet, but two data points are:

1.  We have a member @OSUAV8TER who is a dealer, and gives MooneySpacers great support

2.  I have a friend who put some non-Whelen LEDs on his airplane, and had a nightmare with radio noise

[outermarker]

I read a few comments about radio noise also but the comments were several years old. I also read that noise can be corrected. One person had noise but mentioned a very old radio and thought that might be the reason of his noise. Thanks for the member who is a dealer. 

[jaylw314]

1 hour ago, outermarker said:

I have read through old posts on LED upgrades. Well, technology changes, and to some degree, the FAA moves in the name of safety. So, for those of us like me who are ready to convert to LED lighting, what is the latest update? Can the change be made with a logbook entry? Do I have to have an IA file a 337? Is it technically an illegal modification but the FAA will look the other way in the name of safety and it takes forever to make a regulation change?

I would like to convert a 65'E during the next annual inspection. Whose product would you recommend and have confidence in? What is the good, bad, and ugly? Technology is changing so rapidly that LED lights even three years ago seem to be inferior today. Photos and/or videos would be great for all of us too!

thanks!

LED position and anti-collision lights are considered minor modifications as long as the equipment is actually intended for certified aircraft (as opposed to experimental aircraft). So they just need to be installed by an A&P and he needs to sign a logbook entry.  No IA's or 337's.

Landing lights are different.  There are no TSO requirements like with position and strobe lights, so some worry there's no basis for arguing with the FAA they're equivalent (or even better).  Worse yet, some came with STC's, which seemed to suggest they did require 337's as major modifications.   Conversely, since landing lights have no requirements, some have even argued non-aviation truck LED headlights should be usable.  These days, my impression is that most people just have their A&P put it in or do it themselves, and you probably want to check with your regular IA to make sure he'll be ok with it at annual time.

Interior lights is the trickiest.  Not only is there some debate as to whether a pilot can change interior lights (he probably can even though it's not listed in the allowed preventative maintenance activities), it's technically trickier since LED's don't dim the same way.

FWIW, I used Whelen Orion's for position/strobe lighting, and I have a cheapo Aero-Lites landing light.  Haven't changed the coffee grinder light yet.

 

[Yetti]

Check to see that you need a becon.   Mine just came with wing tip strobes and no coffee grinder.  Some random Amazon LED lights that I added to the running boards do cause radio interference.   But they are great for seeing for entering gate codes.

Edited February 21, 2023 by Yetti

[Pinecone]

My K does not have a beacon.  There is a round hole on the belly with an patch inside the fuselage.

I would like a beacon, but mainly for ground ops, to warn people the aircraft is hot and about to start.  Also, I would leave the switch ON, so if the Master is one, the beacon is on.  And walking away from the plane, a quick look back will let you know you left the master on.

Whelan has two LED aerodynamic shaped beacons and several round ones.  The aero ones are $1600 and $2400.  OUCH.  But they do have a "Ground Recognition Light" which is like a beacon, but not as bright.  Only $300.

[outermarker]

I'll assume that many "vintage" Mooney's still have a belly-mounted rotating beacon. So, one thing I noticed in the Aircraft Spruce catalog was two replacement lights, p/n 13-15810 which is clear and has a reflective coating and suggests that it’s for position lights, and p/n 13-22036 which also has a reflective coating BUT produces a cool white light used with the rotating beacon. So, my question is since the position and rotating beacon all use colored lenses, why would I want to use a cool white bulb? It seems like that type would somewhat diminish the intensity. 

[Old Chub]

 

In regards to jaylw314 comment below.

"Worse yet, some came with STC's, which seemed to suggest they did require 337's as major modifications."

I work for an OEM that produces aircraft accessories under a different brand and sells almost all of them with an FAA STC.   Example: Clear plastic carpet/floor protector for the back seats in a Long Ranger complete with STC.   There is no way this trips the threshold for being a major modification/ alteration to type design but there it is complete with its own STC.  The reason being is for ease of install to all operators (121 and 135 can have certification challenges not seen by us 91 guys) and especially installation in other countries.   In this case an STC was applied for and granted by the FAA.    The point being is just because an installed article has an FAA STC does not mean that it was created due to the fact it was a major modification/alteration to type design.       

Old Chub 

 

 

 

[Hank]

4 hours ago, outermarker said:

I'll assume that many "vintage" Mooney's still have a belly-mounted rotating beacon. So, one thing I noticed in the Aircraft Spruce catalog was two replacement lights, p/n 13-15810 which is clear and has a reflective coating and suggests that it’s for position lights, and p/n 13-22036 which also has a reflective coating BUT produces a cool white light used with the rotating beacon. So, my question is since the position and rotating beacon all use colored lenses, why would I want to use a cool white bulb? It seems like that type would somewhat diminish the intensity. 

When I bought my C in '07, it had a Whelen flasher, not a rotator. The decal said "High Voltage,"  which I laughed at while troubleshooting its irregular flash pattern. Durn multimeter read 500+ volts! The nice Whelen rep at Sun 'n' Tornado snickered when I showed him my model number, and he led me to the local distributor's booth and showed me the unit that I need. It's an LED flasher, white to the back and red to the front, fit the same hole in the belly and used the same [painted] trim as the old unit. But it is much smaller and much brighter, too.

Now I have to look for the pictures, they're on a thumb drive at home . . . .

[OSUAV8TER]

@outermarker if you want to talk about aircraft lighting, give me a call at 1-833-425-5288. I am a Whelen Aerospace Technologies authorized dealer and I have FAA TSO compliant lamps to replace your legacy lights. Basically you will want products that are TSO compliant with the anti-collision light system TSO and the position light TSO. Anything else is not compliant and will not satisfy requirements such as equipment needed for night flight. If your wingtip is flat, the Whelen Orion 650 is a direct replacement for your existing nav/strobe light. With an Orion 650 on each wingtip, that satisfies TSO requirements for positioning of the lights to form a system. You don't need a strobing lamp on the tail as the 650 provides 180 degrees of coverage off each wing. As for noise in the intercom, that is likely a grounding issues that is caused by noise attenuation throughout the airframe, which is easily correctible.  I am following this topic for follow-on questions.

[Joshua Blackh4t]

I bought a G3 landing light off @OSUAV8TER and its really good. Have only used it once, but you can see the runway, not just one spot.

I'd be interested in those tip lights. I just fitted a tailbeaconx so the nav lights need to be permanently on now. Might as well ditch the drag from the belly strobe.

Whats a rough price guide for a pair of them?

[OSUAV8TER]

2 hours ago, Joshua Blackh4t said:

I bought a G3 landing light off @OSUAV8TER and its really good. Have only used it once, but you can see the runway, not just one spot.

I'd be interested in those tip lights. I just fitted a tailbeaconx so the nav lights need to be permanently on now. Might as well ditch the drag from the belly strobe.

Whats a rough price guide for a pair of them?

You'll probably need the Orion 650 and they are $499.99 each, so $999.98 for the pair. Free shipping and no sales tax, links are below.

https://www.gallagheraviationllc.com/WAT-14V-Green-6501G-Wingtip-Light_p_167.html <-- Right wing 14V Orion 650

https://www.gallagheraviationllc.com/WAT-14V-Red-6501R-Wingtip-Light_p_166.html <-- Left wing 14V Orion 650

[Pinecone]

Talk to me about the options for a beacon.  I have the hole (with a cover inside) without the beacon.  What are the options?  And how much drag are the round ones.

Also, I see Whelan makes a "Ground Recognition Beacon."  It seems it is like a beacon, but maybe not bright enough to be a legal beacon (I have strobes), but would act as a warning on the ramp that the aircraft is about to start or is running and also as a quick check walking away that the master is off.

It is a LOT cheaper.

[OSUAV8TER]

1 minute ago, Pinecone said:

Talk to me about the options for a beacon.  I have the hole (with a cover inside) without the beacon.  What are the options?  And how much drag are the round ones.

Also, I see Whelan makes a "Ground Recognition Beacon."  It seems it is like a beacon, but maybe not bright enough to be a legal beacon (I have strobes), but would act as a warning on the ramp that the aircraft is about to start or is running and also as a quick check walking away that the master is off.

It is a LOT cheaper.

Which Ground Recognition Beacon are you referring to? The 90350? If so, that beacon only comes in 28V and I'm not sure of your voltage. If someone put a flush mount patch there you could also do a 2.5" Orion 360, which is a very small beacon light. Pictures help. 

[Pinecone]

252, so 28 volts.

Not really a flush mount patch, it looks like they just laid a piece of aluminum on the inside and riveted it.  I will get pics later.

[0TreeLemur]

Which one replaces the coffee grinder on an M20J?

[OSUAV8TER]

Just now, 0TreeLemur said:

Which one replaces the coffee grinder on an M20J?

If it is the round Grimes coffee grinder, any Whelen beacon with a 3.75" base will be the direct replacement. It will install right into the aircraft's existing A440 mounting adapter and you can utilize the existing wiring. Make sure there is a drain hole in the beacon lens because moisture will accumulate and pool in there without it. So an all red or a split red and white Orion 360 (OR36S1W/OR36R1W for 14V or OR36S2W/OR36R2W for 28v) or the 71080 (all red - 7108055 for 14V or 7108005 for 28V) or the 90520 (split red and white - 9052055 for 14V or 9052005 for 28V). The 71080/90520 are slightly larger than the Orion 360 but are way brighter than the Orion 360. Whelen LED Beacons on Gallagher Aviation website link

If it is a tear drop shape it is the 908525D beacon Whelen 908525D Link Gallagher Aviation

 

[0TreeLemur]

1 hour ago, OSUAV8TER said:

If it is the round Grimes coffee grinder, any Whelen beacon with a 3.75" base will be the direct replacement. It will install right into the aircraft's existing A440 mounting adapter and you can utilize the existing wiring. Make sure there is a drain hole in the beacon lens because moisture will accumulate and pool in there without it. So an all red or a split red and white Orion 360 (OR36S1W/OR36R1W for 14V or OR36S2W/OR36R2W for 28v) or the 71080 (all red - 7108055 for 14V or 7108005 for 28V) or the 90520 (split red and white - 9052055 for 14V or 9052005 for 28V). The 71080/90520 are slightly larger than the Orion 360 but are way brighter than the Orion 360. Whelen LED Beacons on Gallagher Aviation website link

If it is a tear drop shape it is the 908525D beacon Whelen 908525D Link Gallagher Aviation

 

Thanks @OSUAV8TER.  It's the round Grimes model.

Does anybody know- how much light does the LED beacon put on the wing?   My C had the belly strobe that did put a little light on the wing but it wasn't distracting after I got used to it.  I assume that the LED does too, but not too much.  I'd like to hear if others find it acceptable before pulling the trigger.    The lenses on the Grimes coffee grinders are set to aim their beam below the axis of the airplane, so they don't put much light on the wing.

Thx.

[Marc_B]

14 minutes ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Does anybody know- how much light does the LED beacon put on the wing?

I have the Whelen shark fin led and it’s noticeably brighter but not distractingly so. 

[hammdo]

I did these for position lights (don’t have strobes):

has strobing effect. 
 

Upgraded the beacon to Whelen LED…

-Don

[0TreeLemur]

9 hours ago, Marc_B said:

I have the Whelen shark fin led and it’s noticeably brighter but not distractingly so. 

Man, that thing is BRIGHT.  I suppose the good thing is that you don't see much of it looking forward?

[Pinecone]

I would like a shark fin one, but it is $1600, versus $600 for the round one.  Crazy

[blakeforslund]

Did you ever get a video? How do you like them?

[M20F-1968]

I have a lightly used Whelen Tail light without strobe.  SN: 00101.  Looks and functions like new.

I have a couple of pictures but the website has apparently changed, I do not see how it upload them.

John Breda

[Bob E]

BEACON:   Attached is my logbook entry for a Whelen LED beacon that replaced my coffee grinder back in 2016.  It's not a strobe; the light gets bright and dim to emulate rotation.  It's extremely bright and the rotation emulation is distinctive enough that my family can always tell which plane is mine when looking up at night. I've had zero problems with it. No radio interference.

POSITION LIGHTS:  You mention that you've looked through prior posts, so I assume you saw this long thread from 2019:  https://mooneyspace.com/topic/26045-nav-light-replacement-bulb/.  I long ago replaced my position lights with LEDs, and they are gorgeous -- intense color and bright. No interference (and I have a magnetometer). In my view, replacing an incandescent position light with an LED is just a bulb replacement and has nothing to do with a TSO. My comment in the 2019 thread explains why; it's on page 5 about halfway down.