Tires, how old is too old?

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

The date codes on my tires are 2005 and 2009,2009.  Side walls are fine see pics.  The tread area has light checking exactly like the attached pic (I don't have pic of tread area), I don't know if that's normal, I don't have more pictures at the moment.  I would be replacing the tires and tubes with Air Hawks.  Plane has been sitting for two years, they only need air twice a year.  Would you fly these tires?

I am in the middle of installing an overhauled engine that lived a short life and have been hemorrhaging money to the tune of $30K on this plane over the least year.  So If I can fly these another year that would help.  

[carusoam]

There are some guidance to follow…

But, cracked surface rubber isn’t a disaster…

The air doesn’t leak out any faster…. The tube keeps the air in place.

The tire structure is composite like… the strength is the fibers hidden in and beneath that rubber…

when you see the tire cords showing… they are unprotected… so that is a good sign for replacement…

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[Andy95W]

I would not change them.

[N201MKTurbo]

UV is what kills them. If it was stored in a hangar, you should be fine.

The real tell is splits and checks in the sidewalls and between the treads.

I would think the failure mode of old tires is the same for car tires and airplane tires. They will shed chunks of tread, or the sidewalls fail and the whole tire shreds. Our tires roll for such short distances, it's unlikely any failure wouldn't show up at preflight before it completely failed. I've never seen or heard of an airplane tire catastrophically failing. I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen it.

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

14 minutes ago, carusoam said:

There are some guidance to follow…

But, cracked surface rubber isn’t a disaster…

The air doesn’t leak out any faster…. The tube keeps the air in place.

The tire structure is composite like… the strength is the fibers hidden in and beneath that rubber…

when you see the tire cords showing… they are unprotected… so that is a good sign for replacement…

 

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

Definitely nothing like cords showing, they are just old.  Thanks.  

 

[carusoam]

We don’t get much tread depth with out tires…

They don’t usually last very long under heavy braking…

Or a skid mark or two…

when your plane lives outdoors UV attacking the rubber is pretty significant…  I used to use armor all for UV protection…  didn’t provide a shine…

So if you get a decade out of a tire… you have done very well…

Best regards,

-a-

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

UV is what kills them. If it was stored in a hangar, you should be fine.

The real tell is splits and checks in the sidewalls and between the treads.

I would think the failure mode of old tires is the same for car tires and airplane tires. They will shed chunks of tread, or the sidewalls fail and the whole tire shreds. Our tires roll for such short distances, it's unlikely any failure wouldn't show up at preflight before it completely failed. I've never seen or heard of an airplane tire catastrophically failing. I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen it.

It's been in a hangar for the last 5 years.  Just those little checks like in the that pic right in the middle of the tread portion.  I will keep them in service at least another year.  In Phoenix car tires should be replaced by the 6 or 7 year mark or they tend to fall apart and you get a blow out on the highway.  I'm worried about that on the plane.  

[N201MKTurbo]

Just now, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

It's been in a hangar for the last 5 years.  Just those little checks like in the that pic right in the middle of the tread portion.  I will keep them in service at least another year.  In Phoenix car tires should be replaced by the 6 or 7 year mark or they tend to fall apart and you get a blow out on the highway.  I'm worried about that on the plane.  

Yes, but it isn't the heat that gets them, it is the sunshine. I live on the other side of town.

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

2 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Yes, but it isn't the heat that gets them, it is the sunshine. I live on the other side of town.

We'll have to grab a burger when I get this Jalopy back in the air!  

[N201MKTurbo]

Your tread pic is from a different airplane. That's not a Mooney landing gear...

[EricJ]

3 minutes ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

It's been in a hangar for the last 5 years.  Just those little checks like in the that pic right in the middle of the tread portion.  I will keep them in service at least another year.  In Phoenix car tires should be replaced by the 6 or 7 year mark or they tend to fall apart and you get a blow out on the highway.  I'm worried about that on the plane.  

+1 that I'd fly on those.   If it's been hangared and there's not much checking inside the tread grooves or on the sidewalls they should be good.  I don't know anybody that checks the date codes during preflight, just for obvious checking, cord showing, chunks missing, etc.

[carusoam]

Big difference for the plane tire…

The car tires… the air pressure doesn’t get maintained by a tube.

Some improvement lately… with cars using a tire pressure monitoring system… all the new cars are getting these lately…

Ford and Firestone…led the knowledge on how low pressure in a single rear tire can be a disaster…

 

Planes don’t have heavy cornering forces…. They’re not top heavy… and they don’t get overloaded…. Like a sport Ute heading to grandma’s house for the holidays… 

-a-

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

Your tread pic is from a different airplane. That's not a Mooney landing gear...

I tried to say that in the post.  That is exactly how my tread looks, I found that pic online.  The other pics are my actual tires.  

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

We'll have to grab a burger when I get this Jalopy back in the air!  

A Mooney lunch run would be fun. There are plenty around here.

[Grandmas Flying Couch]

2 minutes ago, EricJ said:

+1 that I'd fly on those.   If it's been hangared and there's not much checking inside the tread grooves or on the sidewalls they should be good.  I don't know anybody that checks the date codes during preflight, just for obvious checking, cord showing, chunks missing, etc.

That's a good point, I'm going to fly them.  I'm rusty since I haven't flown in two years, I'll let these take the abuse of a few bad landings.  

[N201MKTurbo]

2 minutes ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

I tried to say that in the post.  That is exactly how my tread looks, I found that pic online.  The other pics are my actual tires.  

You are right, I should have read it a little closer. My bad...

[EricJ]

17 minutes ago, N201MKTurbo said:

A Mooney lunch run would be fun. There are plenty around here.

Maybe when Barrio Brewing reopens the restaurant at DVT.   That might be a fun deal.

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

I've never seen or heard of an airplane tire catastrophically failing. I'm sure it happens, but I've never seen it.

https://resources.savvyaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/articles_aopa/AOPA_2021-09_blowout.pdf

[47U]

7 hours ago, Grandmas Flying Couch said:

Plane has been sitting for two years, they only need air twice a year.

If the tubes in these tires have maintained air pressure (tires not sitting flat on the sidewalls) and they otherwise pass visual inspection, then I’d vote for continued service.  

However, I’d be reluctant to fly on tubes that old.  My nose tire went flat after a 20 minute flight, second flight of the day, landing back at home station.  No advance warning.  The vibration (as we decelerated) was alarming.  The airplane is hangared so the tire preflighted fine, but the tube developed a pin hole, all by itself, after (only) 9 years in service.  By the time I figured out what the problem was I was at a taxiway, so I exited and shut down.  I changed both the tire (which was due for replacement at next annual) and the tube.

[PT20J]

Everything you need to know (and more) about tires.

 

aviation-tire-care-2020.pdf

[carusoam]

Nice reference Skip!

Thanks for sharing that…

Go MS!

Best regards,

-a-

[N201MKTurbo]

I wonder what criteria the tire retreaders use to decide what tire carcasses are reusable? 

[N201MKTurbo]

https://shop.desser.com/retreading/

It looks like they image the tire before and after pressurization and look for shearing. Which to me says that a reinforcement cord has failed.

If you have ever seen a car tire with a pucker in the sidewall, that is caused by a broken cord. It looks like that is what they are looking for. Just doing it a little more automated to keep human judgement out of the process.

[N201MKTurbo]

https://d18hjk6wpn1fl5.cloudfront.net/public/406/documents/Current-casingformnew_pdf-406-49689-1.pdf

This is the visual inspection for sending a tire in for retreading. They say if you send in a tire that obviously fails the visual inspection, they will charge you for disposing of the tire.

[Wildhorsetrail]

I wouldn't worry about those tires. I've had much older on my 172. It's usually the tube that goes and the tire itself seldom plays a part in that. It's not usually recommended to put old tubes in a new tire but a new tube in a used tire is frequently done.

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