Pilot job flying a Mooney.

[ArtVandelay]

https://championx.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/ChampionX_External/job/Pilot_R00123503-1?fbclid=IwAR31lKgLzTZfDvjiV20PTYCbHZTXkp-ZO-XBdHnioLd_73vbnsehiqLCFek&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

[N201MKTurbo]

It looks like you would get paid more working at a McDonnalds….

[Shadrach]

2 hours ago, N201MKTurbo said:

It looks like you would get paid more working at a McDonnalds….

That’s more than double what instructors make at the ATP mills. This is a job for 25-year-old that wants to build time and travel.

[0TreeLemur]

2 hours ago, Shadrach said:

That’s more than double what instructors make at the ATP mills. This is a job for 25-year-old that wants to build time and travel.

Those days are ending/over?   I think much better opportunities exist.  I know a young CFII who is drawing a salary and benefits from a regional while doing instruction to build time.

[Fly Boomer]

7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

https://championx.wd1.myworkdayjobs.com/en-US/ChampionX_External/job/Pilot_R00123503-1?fbclid=IwAR31lKgLzTZfDvjiV20PTYCbHZTXkp-ZO-XBdHnioLd_73vbnsehiqLCFek&mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Mooney and twin.  Complex endorsement is "preferred"?

[Shadrach]

3 hours ago, 0TreeLemur said:

Those days are ending/over?   I think much better opportunities exist.  I know a young CFII who is drawing a salary and benefits from a regional while doing instruction to build time.

Are they?  After the Colgan 3407 crash, a bill was subsequently passed requiring 1500hrs to become an ATP.  If your young CFI friend is working for a regional, he’s already built sufficient time to attain an ATP.

[ArtVandelay]

Those days are ending/over?   I think much better opportunities exist.  I know a young CFII who is drawing a salary and benefits from a regional while doing instruction to build time.

They don’t have 1500 hours requirement, so I would think PIC hours flying a Mooney and/or twin looks alot better than hours as a CFI riding in the right seat. Plus you don’t need the various CFI endorsements.

[Greg Ellis]

51 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Are they?  After the Colgan 3407 crash. A bill was subsequently passed requiring 1500hrs to become an ATP.  If your young CFI friend is working for a regional, he’s already built sufficient time to attain an ATP.

It's possible that he is building turbine time for another job not for the ATP (which he may already have).  I investigated a change in careers and flying corporate.  Most jobs required multiple hundreds and sometimes thousands of hours of turbine time and multi time that as a non-professional pilot I would not be able to easily obtain.  My flight instructor who is a corporate pilot advised that if I wanted to go that route then get a gig at a regional airline that will hire you with minimum ATP hours (1500) and fly with them for a year then you will have all the qualifications you need to fly corporate.

[Hank]

49 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

My flight instructor who is a corporate pilot advised that if I wanted to go that route then get a gig at a regional airline that will hire you with minimum ATP hours (1500) and fly with them for a year then you will have all the qualifications you need to fly corporate.

Have you checked starting salaries at regionals? It's less than this Mooney-flying job . . . . .

[Shadrach]

11 minutes ago, Greg Ellis said:

It's possible that he is building turbine time for another job not for the ATP (which he may already have).  I investigated a change in careers and flying corporate.  Most jobs required multiple hundreds and sometimes thousands of hours of turbine time and multi time that as a non-professional pilot I would not be able to easily obtain.  My flight instructor who is a corporate pilot advised that if I wanted to go that route then get a gig at a regional airline that will hire you with minimum ATP hours (1500) and fly with them for a year then you will have all the qualifications you need to fly corporate.

The bottom line is the Job listinh in the OP has a min requirement of 350hrs with 600hrs preferred.  This is a time builder for career starters buidling hours for the ATP.  The days of working a low paying job for a few years out of flight school are not over. Indeed they have been extended with the 1500hr requirement for ATP. There was a time when you  graduated from ATP school with a min 250hrs sometime with a type rating in a Citation or similar and then built time instructing or whatever else you could do to meet insurance requirements. Now you need to build 1500hrs before getting an ATP rating. 

121 ops require ATP

Some 135 ops require ATP.

91 ops are driven by insurance

The days of entry level time building jobs are far from over.  The "pilot shortage" may escalate as the next generation retires and the new generation forgoes the expense and and challenge of getting an ATP in favor of a career that requires less delayed gratification.

[Shadrach]

32 minutes ago, Hank said:

Have you checked starting salaries at regionals? It's less than this Mooney-flying job . . . . .

Probation is only for a year and then things get better.  I have a family member who got his ATP with about 380hrs back in 2001. He worked for the school he graduated from for a year and made less than 10K in 2002. He took a job in the right seat flying bank checks in a Lear 25 his starting salary for "first Jet job" was $18,500 in 2002.  He's doing just fine now but it took three years of starving while flying, minimally maintained and minimally equipped aircraft in the worst weather to get there.  Getting a shitty jet job is likely harder now.

[Andy95W]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

Have you checked starting salaries at regionals? It's less than this Mooney-flying job . . . . .

The times are changing quickly.  Starting pay at the regionals is about $80,000 (and higher), plus signing bonuses of usually $10,000 per more.

The pilot shortage has finally arrived, and regional airline pay is finally starting to reflect that.  @Raptor05121 will have more timely information, hopefully he’ll join the conversation.

[rbp]

not everyone wants an airline job

[rbp]

1 hour ago, Shadrach said:

got his ATP with about 380hrs

surely you mean 1380?

[Shadrach]

1 hour ago, rbp said:

surely you mean 1380?

nope.  I am 99% sure he had under 400hrs.  Prior to 2010 the minimum hours required to get an ATP rating was 250hrs.  The accelerated program at All ATPs was pretty intense class work and basically fly the next check ride.  I think they were able to do combined some check rides back then as well. 

We both got our private tickets at a little country airport in ~50hrs maybe a bit less.  He went to All ATPs after right out of undergrad with maybe ~100hrs. 

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, Hank said:

Have you checked starting salaries at regionals? It's less than this Mooney-flying job . . . . .

Have you checked starting salaries recently?

One regional is paying Captains pay to new hires.  And several have significant hiring bonuses.   Today is not a few years ago.

https://atpflightschool.com/become-a-pilot/airline-career/regional-airline-pilot-pay.html

Highest on the list is $114,000 for the first year.

[Pinecone]

1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

nope.  I am 99% sure he had under 400hrs.  Prior to 2010 the minimum hours required to get an ATP rating was 250hrs.  The accelerated program at All ATPs was pretty intense class work and basically fly the next check ride.  I think they were able to do combined some check rides back then as well. 

We both got our private tickets at a little country airport in ~50hrs maybe a bit less.  He went to All ATPs after right out of undergrad with maybe ~100hrs. 

COMMERCIAL rating was 250 hours for Part 61.  Part 141 was around 200 hours.

ATP has been 1500 hours since I recall.

BUT, in the past you did not need ATP to be an FO, so you could get hired at 250 hours with a Commercial.

[Shadrach]

Just now, Pinecone said:

Have you checked starting salaries recently?

One regional is paying Captains pay to new hires.  And several have significant hiring bonuses.   Today is not a few years ago.

https://atpflightschool.com/become-a-pilot/airline-career/regional-airline-pilot-pay.html

Highest on the list is $114,000 for the first year.

Yes but you need 1500hrs and an ATP.  Those are not the jobs were talking about nor are they the same candidates as the job listing in the OP.

[Pinecone]

Just now, Shadrach said:

Yes but you need 1500hrs and an ATP.  Those are not the jobs were talking about nor are they the same candidates as the job listing in the OP.

Did you read what I replied to????????

The statement I was replying to stated that this job was paying higher than starting at a Regional airline.  

[Shadrach]

1 minute ago, Pinecone said:

COMMERCIAL rating was 250 hours for Part 61.  Part 141 was around 200 hours.

ATP has been 1500 hours since I recall.

BUT, in the past you did not need ATP to be an FO, so you could get hired at 250 hours with a Commercial.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/benbaldanza/2022/07/11/the-1500-hour-rule-has-broken-the-pilot-pipeline-in-the-us/?sh=6f9491bd6a0a

 

 

[Pinecone]

Agreed.

But you stated that in the past the ATP only required 250 hours.  Which is not correct.

But yes, you could fly for the airlines with only 250 hours because an ATP was not required.

Similar end point, but a HUGE difference in how.

[Shadrach]

2 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

Agreed.

But you stated that in the past the ATP only required 250 hours.  Which is not correct.

But yes, you could fly for the airlines with only 250 hours because an ATP was not required.

Similar end point, but a HUGE difference in how.

https://www.historynet.com/1500-hour-requirement-atp-come/

 

[Pinecone]

1 minute ago, Shadrach said:

https://www.historynet.com/1500-hour-requirement-atp-come/

They are wrong.

I happen to have the 1991 FAR/AIM in my hands.

ATP Aeronautical experience.

61.155(b)(1) At least 250 hours PIC, in an airplane, or as a copilot performing the duties and functions of a PIC under supervision of a PIC or a comfbination thereof, of which at least 100 hours was XC and 35 hours were night.

61.155(b) (2) At least 1500 hours of flight time as a pilot including

(i) 500 hours XC flight time

(ii) 100 hours night flight time

(iii)75 hours of actual or simulated instrument time, of which at least 50 hours was in flight.

 

[Hank]

@Pinecone, what your old FAR doesn't say in this section is that back then a Comm. pilot could fly right seat (first officer, copilot, chief map holder, whatever), with just a CPL and 250 hours. Starting in 2010, the right seat began requiring ATP.

[rbp]

3 minutes ago, Hank said:

a Comm. pilot could fly right seat (first officer, copilot, chief map holder, whatever), with just a CPL and 250 hours.

 

29 minutes ago, Shadrach said:

Prior to 2010 the minimum hours required to get an ATP rating was 250hrs. 

these are two different statements. only the first one is correct