Flat tire on landing

[larrynimmo]

Today there was a turbulent breeze blowing mainly down the runway… and I made the absolutely most perfect landing until I had  a shake on the front wheel….I braked to a full stop, got out of the plane and saw I had a flat tire…very hesitantly I felt the outer edges of the blades just to make sure I didn’t have a blade strike….the tower sent a tug to tow me off the runway, but it wasn’t practical to me as I was scared that I would tear up the wheel…so I sought advice of others…one person hung on the tail taking pressure off the nose wheel, which made it easy to tow.   Once I got it off the runway we put an improvised caster under the wheel and towed it a mile and a half at 2mph.

it took it apart and found an unexplained small puncture in the tube.   Tomorrow it goes back together

[ArtVandelay]

What would you have done at a non towered airport?
Or if there was no maintenance shop? The prop will be awfully close to the ground.

[Hank]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

What would you have done at a non towered airport?
Or if there was no maintenance shop? The prop will be awfully close to the ground.

Ten inch ground clearance minus 2-1/2" sidewall height leaves plenty of ground clearance. But hand-pulling a mile and a half with a flat tire would not be fun! Taxiing under power that far would likely destroy the tire and risk the wheel itself. 

The improvised caster is excellent, and it could be towed gently and slowly using a vehicle with a trailer hitch and rope to the nose gear. Or a golf cart, if you have one. My truck has a hitch, and I keep several pics of rope for tieing down stuff in the bed.

[T. Peterson]

1 hour ago, ArtVandelay said:

What would you have done at a non towered airport?
Or if there was no maintenance shop? The prop will be awfully close to the ground.

He would have adapted and overcome.

[N201MKTurbo]

6 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

I remember reading a front cover article in the MAPA Log back in the mid 80s, when the MAPA Log was still black and white, about an Executive whose nose wheel fell off in the flight.  The pilot was able to land with the engine running without striking the prop.  

How can that happen? Did someone forget to put the axel nut on? Forget to tighten it and forgot the cotter pin? Even then it doesn’t seem like it would come off quickly, especially in the air. I would think it would come off during a taxi turn or something that would put some side load on it.

All rhetorical questions, I know you don’t know any more about it.

[Cruiser]

10 hours ago, larrynimmo said:

Today there was a turbulent breeze blowing mainly down the runway… and I made the absolutely most perfect landing until I had  a shake on the front wheel….I braked to a full stop, got out of the plane and saw I had a flat tire…very hesitantly I felt the outer edges of the blades just to make sure I didn’t have a blade strike….the tower sent a tug to tow me off the runway, but it wasn’t practical to me as I was scared that I would tear up the wheel…so I sought advice of others…one person hung on the tail taking pressure off the nose wheel, which made it easy to tow.   Once I got it off the runway we put an improvised caster under the wheel and towed it a mile and a half at 2mph.

it took it apart and found an unexplained small puncture in the tube.   Tomorrow it goes back together

a piece of grit from the tire. Be certain to clean the inside of the tire and completely remove any sign of loose debris. A small piece of the tire the size of a piece of sand will vibrate a hole in the tube. 

[jlunseth]

I had the same thing happen once on an Angel Flight. Was able to taxi off the runway under own power and park the plane. Soft field procedure. It was nontowered but there was a good maintenance facility that was open so by the time the passenger and I got back from her appointment, the plane was ready to go as if nothing had ever happened. Lucky I guess.

[MooneyMitch]

1 hour ago, N201MKTurbo said:

How can that happen? Did someone forget to put the axel nut on? Forget to tighten it and forgot the cotter pin? Even then it doesn’t seem like it would come off quickly, especially in the air. I would think it would come off during a taxi turn or something that would put some side load on it.

All rhetorical questions, I know you don’t know any more 

A bit off OP topic, but If my memory is correct, a close friend of mine had sold his F and the fellow left the cotter pin off. The axel nut eventually fell off.  This may be the same plane Jim is speaking of.  I’ll verify with my friend and report back .

[MooneyMitch]

22 minutes ago, bluehighwayflyer said:

Hi, Mitch.  That sounds right.  Why am I not surprised that you remember that?   
 

Come to think of it, there might have been an article in the same issue about the gear up landing you had in your previous F due to a mechanical failure.  I’m sure you remember that mention in the MAPA Log, too. I’m just not sure it was the same issue.  Same time period, though, for sure.  

Uh, yep, I sure remember the gear failure and eventual gear unlocked landing ….. vivid still in my old memory bank    I enjoy telling the story to folks occasionally ( humor injected along the way during storytelling).  I had forgotten I’d written something for the LOG .  It would be fun to read it again. 
 

I might have posted on MS or written something for the LOG previously, regarding blowing a main tire upon a landing in the Ovation several years ago.  

[A64Pilot]

I landed a C-210 with a flat nose wheel, taxied to the hangar area and found pressurized air. Nose wheel was low so it was aired up just before we left, I assume the needle was cocked and the air leaked out in flight because tire was fine after it was aired up.

I learned never to fly without the metal valve cap that has an O-ring in it installed.

I taxied I’d guess a couple of hundred yards.

A 210 is heavy on the nose like a Mooney, surprised it didn’t at least tear up the tube, but I needed to get off the runway at least.

[MooneyMitch]

Ok, as I drift this thread further......................I just spoke to my dear friend Gary Anderson regarding the missing Mooney nose wheel story.

A friend of Gary's was flying over to Cameron Park for a visit.  Gary was on the ground watching as the F entered the pattern.  Gary noticed the nose wheel missing and via handheld, suggested his friend only do a fly-by for the missing wheel verification.  Yep, sure nuf, missing wheel assembly.  The F model decided to return to Livermore [his home base] for the landing.  Gary followed along in his Mooney for moral support.  LVK tower was alerted and response crews were dispatched.  The landing was uneventful as the bearing race had remained on the axle and functioned as a wheel upon touchdown.  Gary says no sparks were seen, no prop strike either.  No damage to the airplane.

Later a neighbor in the Cameron Park area found the wheel and it was returned to the F model owner. 

Gary doesn't recall, but obviously a mechanic had left the cotter pin and probably the axle nut off during some maintenance ! 

Another lucky day Mooney story !

[PT20J]

Maybe it would be a good idea to carry a pump. Unless it was a blowout, you could pump it up enough to get to a tie down.

[N201MKTurbo]

4 minutes ago, PT20J said:

Maybe it would be a good idea to carry a pump. Unless it was a blowout, you could pump it up enough to get to a tie down.

How about a CO2 bicycle inflator. It will fit in the seat back.

[A64Pilot]

1 minute ago, N201MKTurbo said:

How about a CO2 bicycle inflator. It will fit in the seat back.

Be careful with those things the ones I used to carry on the bike would freeze your hand, that CO2 cartridge gets real cold, fast.

[N201MKTurbo]

1 minute ago, A64Pilot said:

Be careful with those things the ones I used to carry on the bike would freeze your hand, that CO2 cartridge gets real cold, fast.

Not if you put them in right. 
 

I have found that you need to replace the CO2, for some reason I haven’t resolved yet, the CO2 leaks out way faster than air. Without getting deep in the chemistry, it seems like a CO2 molecule would be bigger than an N2 molecule.

[A64Pilot]

One I had you didn’t put them into anything, there was a bent metal tube that you screwed onto the valve on the tire, then screwed the CO2 cartridge onto it. You were fine with a rag or gloves but it took the first time to learn that.

Like this one, it’s much fancier with a gauge and all but same idea

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/cpro2-gauge-trigger/p/173329?color=270098-173329&searchText=47219-4050&gclid=CjwKCAiAkfucBhBBEiwAFjbkrxpgyYbsHCiENVN-1X_wQtVVkiQao8UHkTHTmUqiwE2-rHRzRSMoiBoC7N0QAvD_BwE

Helium is a smaller molecule I’ve used it to find tank leaks and dry suit leaks

[jlunseth]

You don’t screw the canister on to the inflator until you need it to fill a tire. It does not seal well and any remaining CO2 will leak out pretty quickly. You don’t need gloves with most modern inflators, but then I have always had short fingered bike gloves on when I used one, might not have noticed the cold. However, I don’t think they would help much. They are calibrated to fill a bike tire to 100 lbs. or so and not much more, not sure that would have much effect on a nose tire. 

[PT20J]

I kind of like the CO₂ idea. Who's got a favorite?

[N201MKTurbo]

I’m a cheap bastard, I use the ones that take a standard CO2 cartridge. I buy them in bulk for about 50 cents each. Some of the fancier ones use $5 cartridges.  
 

This is the one I have:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/255827909776?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-117182-37290-0&mkcid=2&mkscid=101&itemid=255827909776&targetid=1262779894249&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=9030089&poi=&campaignid=14859008593&mkgroupid=130497710760&rlsatarget=pla-1262779894249&abcId=9300678&merchantid=6296724&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIn-jbxKmF_AIVDwWtBh3USwMaEAQYASABEgLitvD_BwE
 

It only works with presta valves. For the airplane you will need one that works with Shreader valves.

There are hundreds of different ones available. There are even some with pressure gauges. Some are tiny, some are not.

[larrynimmo]

12 hours ago, PT20J said:

Maybe it would be a good idea to carry a pump. Unless it was a blowout, you could pump it up enough to get to a tie down.

Almost laughable….but guess what, it is so true!

[skykrawler]

5 lbs

ttps://hornblasters.com/products/88p-portable-air-compressor?currency=USD&variant=33793271617&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&utm_term=&utm_campaign=&utm_source=adwords&utm_medium=ppc&hsa_acc=5574733909&hsa_cam=15487599817&hsa_grp=&hsa_ad=&hsa_src=x&hsa_tgt=&hsa_kw=&hsa_mt=&hsa_net=adwords&hsa_ver=3&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcGx97U6G95FpiI9DYG1FcTKe0DuA1Mt4Lu1AKjrBHqpequPDnIwiewaAi5lEALw_wcB

 

https://hototools.com/products/hoto-portable-electric-tire-inflator?currency=USD&variant=40162042347726&utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=google&utm_campaign=Google Shopping&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtICdBhCLARIsALUBFcGFTBAqwlAP4sPFN8yujO0Ls4GLdQ-uFaZYTk1DTTSKL5xIIrwKoUwaAr4vEALw_wcB

[aviatoreb]

I once had a flat tire on landing roll out - at KPWM - Portland Maine.  On the one hand I am glad it was at a big airport with a really wide runway because the airplane was a tremendous handful with a complete flat on one man as it really wanted to pull hard right but with the wide runway I was able to keep it on the runway and no further damage besides a flat - and my wallet. 

That was the world's most expensive and annoying flat.  For one thing, I was flying in from Canada with an EAPIS all set up for border patrol, so they had to coordinate with tower to keep me segregated from the tera firma of the USA since the rule is "stay in your airplane until the border patrol greets you" but I was with a disabled airplane on the runway - oh the 737 3 or 4 miles behind me was forced to go around by tower.  Doh.  Ok, border patrol figured it out... and eventually I was allowed to rejoin my home country of the USA.

And being a Sunday afternoon, the mechanic services were....eye watering.  That was an $850 flat.  Including $250 to be towed off the runway to the shop not he field.  Off hours service (for the towing on a Sunday), etc. 

Oh well.. cheaper than if I had the problem on a narrow runway, and something more dire happened.

Edited December 20, 2022 by aviatoreb

[Shadrach]

On 12/18/2022 at 7:22 AM, ArtVandelay said:

What would you have done at a non towered airport?
Or if there was no maintenance shop? The prop will be awfully close to the ground.

Been there done that. It’s close but it’s not that close. Even with the nose wheel tire totally flat I had >5” of prop clearance. Not exactly comfortable, but not as risky as it looks. That being said I would have it on a dolly as soon as possible. Ive had two flat tires in the Mooney one from FOD (#6 machine screw) and one for unexplainable tube failure.

[Fly Boomer]

3 hours ago, skykrawler said:

5 lbs

???

Never mind.  Another post below clarified that it's the weight of the inflation device.

[Shadrach]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:09 AM, T. Peterson said:

He would have adapted and overcome.

I had a left main fail just after touchdown while making an expedited and unplanned landing at a small airport due to an ill passenger. It was a Sunday afternoon and only about 50nm from my home drome. I had a mutual acquaintance who connected me with a mechanic that operated on field. He was out of town but was king enough to give me access to his shop. There happened to be an old 201 sitting on the tarmac that not flown in years but was under the mechanic’s tutelage. All the tires were full of air and in good shape. With his permission…Adapt and over come indeed. I returned and reinstalled the borrowed wheel within 48hrs