201er Posted October 9, 2022 Report Posted October 9, 2022 Quick little flight NJ to St Petersburg Florida. I was contemplating going IFR or VFR direct. Inevitably IFR routing would cost at least a few extra mins enroute plus programming it up. They always make you take V1 from NY to VA at least. Crystal clear VMC all the way except a bunch of layers crossing Delaware Bay. Good thing I chose IFR. In 6 hours there was maybe 2 minutes of actual and 20 minutes outside clouds but close enough VFR would be questionable. I’m sure if I made some significant altitude changes or went around it could have been done VFR but why spend the extra work? I find that on most real cross country flights, it’s inevitable to need to be IFR at least some of the time even on nice days. It’s almost always easier and less stressful that way. It’s rare to be able to go more than 500 miles without running into at least some kind of weather. There’s often workarounds that make it possible VFR. But they certainly aren’t easier or less stressful than going IFR. 4 Quote
Ragsf15e Posted October 9, 2022 Report Posted October 9, 2022 29 minutes ago, 201er said: Quick little flight NJ to St Petersburg Florida. I was contemplating going IFR or VFR direct. Inevitably IFR routing would cost at least a few extra mins enroute plus programming it up. They always make you take V1 from NY to VA at least. Crystal clear VMC all the way except a bunch of layers crossing Delaware Bay. Good thing I chose IFR. In 6 hours there was maybe 2 minutes of actual and 20 minutes outside clouds but close enough VFR would be questionable. I’m sure if I made some significant altitude changes or went around it could have been done VFR but why spend the extra work? I find that on most real cross country flights, it’s inevitable to need to be IFR at least some of the time even on nice days. It’s almost always easier and less stressful that way. It’s rare to be able to go more than 500 miles without running into at least some kind of weather. There’s often workarounds that make it possible VFR. But they certainly aren’t easier or less stressful than going IFR. It’s funny how different areas can be like that. With the different cloud layers and humidity near the beach along your route, I’m sure you’re right about ifr being better. Out west, i often fly from eastern washington to western nevada. Say ~525 nm. The MSAs are so high that NA airplanes are forced to zigzag all over the place or go way around. But vfr direct, you can cruise along wide valleys between the bigger mountains and stay 3k agl+. Ifr is very impractical in an NA along that route. Crossing the Rockies in an NA (in Colorado) is another route where vfr works well. I’m not say ifr is impossible in an na on these routes, it’s just harder. 3 Quote
Eight8Victor Posted October 9, 2022 Report Posted October 9, 2022 @201er Welcome to Florida. While departing the Florida Mooney lunch gathering at X60, I spotted your tail number on my ipad. I was about 3 miles behind you and 500' below. Turned to match your direction to compare 201 speed to F speed. At 25/25 I was showing 152 knots to your 160 knots. Just curious what your cruise settings were? 1 Quote
201er Posted October 9, 2022 Author Report Posted October 9, 2022 1 hour ago, Eight8Victor said: @201er Welcome to Florida. While departing the Florida Mooney lunch gathering at X60, I spotted your tail number on my ipad. I was about 3 miles behind you and 500' below. Turned to match your direction to compare 201 speed to F speed. At 25/25 I was showing 152 knots to your 160 knots. Just curious what your cruise settings were? Taking it easy at about 65% power. 2 Quote
Hank Posted October 9, 2022 Report Posted October 9, 2022 25 minutes ago, 201er said: Taking it easy at about 65% power. Put your right foot on the rudder and you'll get a couple more knots . . . 3 Quote
LANCECASPER Posted October 9, 2022 Report Posted October 9, 2022 5 minutes ago, Hank said: Put your right foot on the rudder and you'll get a couple more knots . . . Or @201er can put a little first officer uniform on a parrot assign him to do that. 2 1 Quote
201er Posted October 9, 2022 Author Report Posted October 9, 2022 9 hours ago, Ragsf15e said: It’s funny how different areas can be like that. With the different cloud layers and humidity near the beach along your route, I’m sure you’re right about ifr being better. Out west, i often fly from eastern washington to western nevada. Say ~525 nm. The MSAs are so high that NA airplanes are forced to zigzag all over the place or go way around. But vfr direct, you can cruise along wide valleys between the bigger mountains and stay 3k agl+. Ifr is very impractical in an NA along that route. Crossing the Rockies in an NA (in Colorado) is another route where vfr works well. I’m not say ifr is impossible in an na on these routes, it’s just harder. I completely agree. First time I went to Arizona I went IFR. Turbulence was so bad going in a straight line over the mountains I was getting sick and even needed to reach for (but not use) a bag. Been going VFR around the mountains since and much better ride. East Coast, I’d rather just be IFR in a straight line over them. 1 Quote
carusoam Posted October 10, 2022 Report Posted October 10, 2022 East coast and IR go perfectly together… Or weather watching becomes your favorite sport… Or explaining to family why you always can’t stay just a little longer…. Stay current! Best regards, -a- Quote
ArtVandelay Posted October 10, 2022 Report Posted October 10, 2022 Put your right foot on the rudder and you'll get a couple more knots . . . The question is why is it yawing in level flight? Quote
carusoam Posted October 10, 2022 Report Posted October 10, 2022 2 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: The question is why is it yawing in level flight? Because…. The single setting of a fixed rudder trim… At best, can only be correct for one set of conditions… One weight… One balance… One power setting… One attitude… One speed… etc… Change any one of these variables… Expect that the ball will move off center… by some amount… The aircraft designer/manufacturer has done a great job of determining how much the engine is canted in both the horizontal and vertical planes… Sooo…. In the end, we always have elevator trim… but….. It is (or would be) nice to have rudder trim as well… On a smooth day… it is easy to tell how effective rudder trim is during the three main phases of flight… T/O and climb, cruise, and descent… Small changes, mostly caused by changes of attitude and speed… Go rudder trim…! PP discussion points only, not a mechanic… Best regards, -a- Quote
ArtVandelay Posted October 10, 2022 Report Posted October 10, 2022 1. The J is normally well balanced, and has no rudder trim.2. My J may ever so slightly yaw in level flight but you’d have to look closely and remains within the center brackets.3. I believe he had his plane painted, so the rudder may not be rigged correctly now. Quote
Ragsf15e Posted October 10, 2022 Report Posted October 10, 2022 7 hours ago, ArtVandelay said: 1. The J is normally well balanced, and has no rudder trim. 2. My J may ever so slightly yaw in level flight but you’d have to look closely and remains within the center brackets. 3. I believe he had his plane painted, so the rudder may not be rigged correctly now. My F does that too. Seems to be airspeed dependent. Slow cruising or climbing requires right rudder. ~140mph indicated cruise is neutral. Faster than that requires left rudder (although not a lot). I typically cruise high altitudes, so indicated is slower and I’m holding a little right rudder. I do have a 3 blade and I asked about it at Top Gun once. He said that was pretty normal. Quote
N201MKTurbo Posted October 11, 2022 Report Posted October 11, 2022 So, if I’m going anywhere around here out west, it is almost always easier and more efficient to go VFR. The exception is going to the coast. I stay current just for that. It erases all the crazy airspace. There is a big difference between IFR east of the Rockies and west of them. Unless you are flying a jet. 2 Quote
Ragsf15e Posted October 11, 2022 Report Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, bluehighwayflyer said: Of course it is normal. Without rudder trim the ball will only center itself at one airspeed. You can pick what airspeed that is, though, through mechanical fine tuning. My previous M20J was used for thousands of hours in a life previous to mine as a radio station “eye in the sky” traffic spotter aircraft for a Bay Area radio station. It was also maintained by Tom Rouch of Top Gun fame for all of those years. Not being very smart it took me longer than it probably should have to figure out why the ball centered at roughly Carson’s speed. Yes it’s probably that simple, but there are a lot of forces at play. I fly a different, more powerful airplane where the trim changes as well, but it’s much more about power setting than airspeed. Quote
201er Posted October 12, 2022 Author Report Posted October 12, 2022 Coming back was a combination of VFR, IFR, and VFR! First a VFR departure from St Petersburg to do a sightseeing flight of places we visited. Bridge Transition VFR across Tampa international and downtown. Then picked up IFR off Tampa Exec to climb up through a broken layer. More IMC near Charleston. Cancelled IFR over Dover to avoid the dreaded Modena route around Philly on the west side. Proceeded VFR direct to Linden for the last bit since the weather was good but night. Could the whole thing be done VFR? Yes. But is it worth getting bounced around below clouds at 3000ft the whole way or going up/down/around all the time? So much of the flight was VMC but inevitably there’s a few bits that are clouded up. Hard VFR or easy IFR. I use whatever gets me there easier. 2 Quote
Pinecone Posted October 12, 2022 Report Posted October 12, 2022 Similar for me KCAE to 0W3. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/N252VM IFR all the way though, until about 10 miles out of 0W3. IFR departure allowed us to climb through the broken layer to a super smooth ride. Quote
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