Verify ATC IFR Routing via FlightAware ?

[ATC Routing in FlightAware]

In the recent Mooney magazine it was mentioned you could verify the route ATC was going to give you before you call for clearance by checking FlightAware ??    Then  make updates in 1800WX Brief?   Not familiar with that   Where in FlightAware is that an option?

Bill

[midlifeflyer]

5 hours ago, ATC Routing in FlightAware said:

In the recent Mooney magazine it was mentioned you could verify the route ATC was going to give you before you call for clearance by checking FlightAware ??    Then  make updates in 1800WX Brief?   Not familiar with that   Where in FlightAware is that an option?

Bill

If you look up a specific flight that's been filed, the information will include expected clearances as known to that point. I do it all the time when I want to load the clearance for a commercial flight on, say, Foreflight.  

But why update 1800wxbrief? I don't understand that part. 

[EricJ]

35 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

But why update 1800wxbrief? I don't understand that part. 

I think it just increases your chances of getting "as filed" by re-filing the expected route.
 

[Skates97]

21 minutes ago, EricJ said:

I think it just increases your chances of getting "as filed" by re-filing the expected route.
 

^^^This

If you file one thing and look on Flight Aware and there is something different, when you get your clearance they are going to give you what ATC approved which in my experience is what is listed in Flight Aware. If you re-file what it shows in Flight Aware you have a better chance of hearing "as filed" instead of the whole routing read off to you which you then have to read back.

[Skates97]

6 hours ago, ATC Routing in FlightAware said:

In the recent Mooney magazine it was mentioned you could verify the route ATC was going to give you before you call for clearance by checking FlightAware ??    Then  make updates in 1800WX Brief?   Not familiar with that   Where in FlightAware is that an option?

Bill

Pull up your future flight and scroll down to the "Flight Data" section.

[201er]

It’s good for added situational awareness but don’t rely on it as it can still change. Don’t be like this Cirrus captain

 

 

[midlifeflyer]

14 hours ago, EricJ said:

I think it just increases your chances of getting "as filed" by re-filing the expected route.
 

I really don't care about that so long as I know what to expect. Copying and reading back a long clearance you already know is not that bad. 

OTOH, given some of the system glitches that happen, I am suspicious of an "as filed" clearance when I file one thing and shortly before the flight, it is amended by me or anyone else. And yes, I've seen that latter one.

[McMooney]

Honestly, at this point, i've just given up on ever getting a sane flight plan.

I've received as filed twice in 3 years.

the last as filed, was two weeks ago knew -> ksgr,  

was re-routed while on climb out.  given a new clearance 5 mins later, flew that for about 10 mins, then given direct,  15 mins later given a new clearance, then a star  just prior to everyone giving up and being told to fly direct.

I used to try entering the clearances given by ff or gp but realized, atleast down here, it just makes for more work.

not saying it's bad, controllers down here seem to do everything to send you direct dest.

[Pinecone]

12 hours ago, 201er said:

It’s good for added situational awareness but don’t rely on it as it can still change. Don’t be like this Cirrus captain

 

It seems he had his expected clearance from some source, and had loaded it, but did not amend his flight plan, so it would be Cleared As Filed.

AND, he did not realize that Garmin parses airways into every fix along that airway.  They do that to help if you get a Cleared Direct to some fix further down the airway.

ANd, he had his head up his posterior.

 

 

[Scottknoll]

I use the foreflight expected route feature. Shortly after you file, it gives you the option of using your filed or expected route. I switch to expected, then after I have my official clearance, send that to the panel via flight stream.

I was flying PTW-K09 a few weeks ago, 201nm. My expected route sent me over BUF and doubled the distance to 409nm. I thought, “no way ATC would do that to me.” Sure enough it took me a couple “unable that route due to fuel”plus about 5 min of back and forth with Allentown approach to get them to fix it. The expected route in foreflight seems to be whatever the ATC computer spits out to the controller, so IMHO it’s a good chance you’ll get that routing. But it’s obviously not a clearance until it’s a clearance.

I’ve also heard foreflight and a few others are trying to come up with a system where you can actually get your clearance and IFR release from ATC through the app at any airport. We do it via datalink (PDC/CPDLC-DCL) all the time in other aircraft. PDC is available through foreflight (performance plus or business performance), no matter the aircraft type. But it’s only available at a limited number of airports. https://foreflight.com/support/pdc/

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-05-11/mitre-foreflight-test-mobile-ifr-clearance-delivery

[Andy95W]

3 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

 Copying and reading back a long clearance you already know is not that bad. 

I am suspicious of an "as filed" clearance when I file one thing and shortly before the flight, it is amended by me 

⬆️⬆️⬆️.

Total agreement with Mark.

If you file more than one flight plan and you get cleared “as filed”, how can you be 100% sure which flight plan they’re clearing you for?  I’d rather read back a long clearance (that I’m expecting due to FlightAware) and be sure.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Andy95W

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, McMooney said:

Honestly, at this point, i've just given up on ever getting a sane flight plan.

I've received as filed twice in 3 years.

the last as filed, was two weeks ago knew -> ksgr,  

was re-routed while on climb out.  given a new clearance 5 mins later, flew that for about 10 mins, then given direct,  15 mins later given a new clearance, then a star  just prior to everyone giving up and being told to fly direct.

I used to try entering the clearances given by ff or gp but realized, atleast down here, it just makes for more work.

not saying it's bad, controllers down here seem to do everything to send you direct dest.

Receiving "as filed" seems to be highly dependent on where.  Most of what I receive is "as filed" or with minimal changes. That includes trips where to paces I haven't flow before and I've made up a route and trips I've taken to and from the NYC area. My last not "as filed" was when I experimented with trying to get a clearance from FRG back home other than what is the standard TEC route. Center accepted and even gave me an "expected" as is routing. It was amended to the standard route as I walked to the airplane so I didn't pick it up until I called CD. 

[midlifeflyer]

2 hours ago, Scottknoll said:

I use the foreflight expected route feature. Shortly after you file, it gives you the option of using your filed or expected route. I switch to expected, then after I have my official clearance, send that to the panel via flight stream.

I was flying PTW-K09 a few weeks ago, 201nm. My expected route sent me over BUF and doubled the distance to 409nm. I thought, “no way ATC would do that to me.” Sure enough it took me a couple “unable that route due to fuel”plus about 5 min of back and forth with Allentown approach to get them to fix it. The expected route in foreflight seems to be whatever the ATC computer spits out to the controller, so IMHO it’s a good chance you’ll get that routing. But it’s obviously not a clearance until it’s a clearance.

I’ve also heard foreflight and a few others are trying to come up with a system where you can actually get your clearance and IFR release from ATC through the app at any airport. We do it via datalink (PDC/CPDLC-DCL) all the time in other aircraft. PDC is available through foreflight (performance plus or business performance), no matter the aircraft type. But it’s only available at a limited number of airports. https://foreflight.com/support/pdc/

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-05-11/mitre-foreflight-test-mobile-ifr-clearance-delivery

Hopefully PDC will eventually expand to all airports. Probably will happen in stages.

[Pinecone]

3 hours ago, Scottknoll said:

I’ve also heard foreflight and a few others are trying to come up with a system where you can actually get your clearance and IFR release from ATC through the app at any airport. We do it via datalink (PDC/CPDLC-DCL) all the time in other aircraft. PDC is available through foreflight (performance plus or business performance), no matter the aircraft type. But it’s only available at a limited number of airports. https://foreflight.com/support/pdc/

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-05-11/mitre-foreflight-test-mobile-ifr-clearance-delivery

They have that, but only a few (BIG) airports.

[Pinecone]

33 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

If you file more than one flight plan and you get cleared “as filed”, how can you be 100% sure which flight plan they’re clearing you for?  I’d rather read back a long clearance (that I’m expecting due to FlightAware) and be sure.

You are not filing two flight plans, you are amending the one you already filed.

[PT20J]

34 minutes ago, Andy95W said:

If you file more than one flight plan and you get cleared “as filed”, how can you be 100% sure which flight plan they’re clearing you for?  

If there is any doubt, you can just ask for a full route clearance.

[midlifeflyer]

21 minutes ago, PT20J said:

If there is any doubt, you can just ask for a full route clearance.

Of course you can. But I think asking for a full route clearance removes any supposed benefit to amending what you filed to conform to what is expected. 

[Andy95W]

15 minutes ago, Pinecone said:

You are not filing two flight plans, you are amending the one you already filed.

Same difference: how can you be 100% sure that when they say “as filed” that they actually received your amendment?  I’d rather be sure.  Making amendments or re-filing simply to hear the magical “Cleared as filed” seems like a waste of time and adds ambiguity to a procedure that is supposed to remove ambiguity.

 

14 minutes ago, PT20J said:

If there is any doubt, you can just ask for a full route clearance.

That’s exactly my point.  As midlifeflyer pointed out previously:  “Copying and reading back a long clearance you already know is not that bad.”

[Skates97]

Hmmm, maybe they should just remove "as filed" from what they are allowed to say when giving clearances and always require ATC to give the full routing and require the full read back. 

[Pinecone]

2 hours ago, Andy95W said:

Same difference: how can you be 100% sure that when they say “as filed” that they actually received your amendment?  I’d rather be sure.  Making amendments or re-filing simply to hear the magical “Cleared as filed” seems like a waste of time and adds ambiguity to a procedure that is supposed to remove ambiguity.

 

That’s exactly my point.  As midlifeflyer pointed out previously:  “Copying and reading back a long clearance you already know is not that bad.”

Because you can double check Flight Aware or 1-800 WXBRIEF to see what your clearance is.

 

[Will.iam]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:48 AM, Scottknoll said:

I use the foreflight expected route feature. Shortly after you file, it gives you the option of using your filed or expected route. I switch to expected, then after I have my official clearance, send that to the panel via flight stream.

I was flying PTW-K09 a few weeks ago, 201nm. My expected route sent me over BUF and doubled the distance to 409nm. I thought, “no way ATC would do that to me.” Sure enough it took me a couple “unable that route due to fuel”plus about 5 min of back and forth with Allentown approach to get them to fix it. The expected route in foreflight seems to be whatever the ATC computer spits out to the controller, so IMHO it’s a good chance you’ll get that routing. But it’s obviously not a clearance until it’s a clearance.

I’ve also heard foreflight and a few others are trying to come up with a system where you can actually get your clearance and IFR release from ATC through the app at any airport. We do it via datalink (PDC/CPDLC-DCL) all the time in other aircraft. PDC is available through foreflight (performance plus or business performance), no matter the aircraft type. But it’s only available at a limited number of airports. https://foreflight.com/support/pdc/

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/business-aviation/2018-05-11/mitre-foreflight-test-mobile-ifr-clearance-delivery

Dfw has a nasty habit of the computer trying to send me out on a departure sid even when i file 4000ft and am out of their class B airspace. At one point even had an approach controller ask me why i filed this way. When i told him it’s what was sent back as expected, he said try a different airport that is not private like mine is. Sure enough filing out of KDTO which is 10 miles away drastically changed my route to more direct. It seems the computer doesn’t know what to do with me when I start at an airport not in their system. Like the guidance on some cars when you are on a road that is not in their system it will try to reroute you as it doesn’t know that road exists and thinks you are off roading. 

[midlifeflyer]

1 hour ago, Will.iam said:

Dfw has a nasty habit of the computer trying to send me out on a departure sid even when i file 4000ft and am out of their class B airspace. At one point even had an approach controller ask me why i filed this way. When i told him it’s what was sent back as expected, he said try a different airport that is not private like mine is. Sure enough filing out of KDTO which is 10 miles away drastically changed my route to more direct. It seems the computer doesn’t know what to do with me when I start at an airport not in their system. Like the guidance on some cars when you are on a road that is not in their system it will try to reroute you as it doesn’t know that road exists and thinks you are off roading. 

Are you saying that you filed Route A, received Route B as an "expected," and the controller thought you filed Route B?

[Will.iam]

21 minutes ago, midlifeflyer said:

Are you saying that you filed Route A, received Route B as an "expected," and the controller thought you filed Route B?

Yes. 

[RobertGary1]

Foreflight does this for you. It suggests the most commonly cleared routes for your flight before you file.

[jaylw314]

12 minutes ago, RobertGary1 said:

Foreflight does this for you. It suggests the most commonly cleared routes for your flight before you file.

Leidos also provides this, it's one of the options when you create a flight plan.

 

2 hours ago, Will.iam said:

Dfw has a nasty habit of the computer trying to send me out on a departure sid even when i file 4000ft and am out of their class B airspace. At one point even had an approach controller ask me why i filed this way. When i told him it’s what was sent back as expected, he said try a different airport that is not private like mine is. Sure enough filing out of KDTO which is 10 miles away drastically changed my route to more direct. It seems the computer doesn’t know what to do with me when I start at an airport not in their system. Like the guidance on some cars when you are on a road that is not in their system it will try to reroute you as it doesn’t know that road exists and thinks you are off roading. 

That's interesting, I don't think I've ever received a SID from the computer, whether leaving from my home or under the LAX/SFO Class B's.  From my home airport, the computer NEVER assigns the local SID, but ATC always does, so my clearance is usually "depart via the SHEDD4 then as filed".  From SMO under the LAX class B, it's usually some terrible departure instructions, but then "as filed" after.