Pitch Hitter Course for my Wife Somewhere In Florida

[Speed Merchant]

My wife would like to take a pitch hitter course in our 201 somewhere in Florida. Does anyone have any suggestions who we can contact?  We can travel if necessary.

Thanks!

[Hank]

I would think @mike_elliott could either do it or recommend someone. There was a Right Seat Ready course a few Mooney Summits ago, my wife liked it. But classroom only it was.

[LANCECASPER]

4 hours ago, Speed Merchant said:

My wife would like to take a pitch hitter course in our 201 somewhere in Florida. Does anyone have any suggestions who we can contact?  We can travel if necessary.

Thanks!

MooneyMax last weekend in Longview taught the Right Seat Ready course with time in the Mooney simulator as well. The ones to reach out to would be Jolie Lucas @mooneygirl and Jan Maxwell @Jan Maxwell

[carusoam]

+2 for both Jolie and Jan…

they have the skills and the experience…

They qualify for best in the industry…. 

Find ‘right seat ready’ this is the name of the class they teach…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

My wife took the RSR course last week at Mooney Max. She has her personal checklist and knows the basics. One of the things they taught was, "Do not try to land the airplane gear down". Good advice. A gear down will likely result in a bounce and injuries. A belly landing, the airplane stops flying and stops quickly with little danger to the occupants. 

 

[ilovecornfields]

1 hour ago, GeeBee said:

My wife took the RSR course last week at Mooney Max. She has her personal checklist and knows the basics. One of the things they taught was, "Do not try to land the airplane gear down". Good advice. A gear down will likely result in a bounce and injuries. A belly landing, the airplane stops flying and stops quickly with little danger to the occupants. 

 

Did they practice low approaches gear up? I would imagine the plane flies differently on short final with the gear up vs down.

[hubcap]

+1 on the Right Seat Ready by Jolie Lucas and Jan Maxwell. My wife took the class at MoonyMax last week and felt it was excellent.

[carusoam]

8 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

? I would imagine the plane flies differently on short final with the gear up vs down.

If the plane flew noticeably different with the gear up vs. down…  (at TPA)

Mooney pilots wouldn’t land GU as often…  

-a-

 

[GeeBee]

9 hours ago, ilovecornfields said:

Did they practice low approaches gear up? I would imagine the plane flies differently on short final with the gear up vs down.

Actually, I have had her practice it in the airplane to 200'. You have to find a deserted place though, because otherwise everyone is screaming at you about the gear.

[hubcap]

2 hours ago, carusoam said:

If the plane flew noticeably different with the gear up vs. down…  (at TPA)

Mooney pilots wouldn’t land GU as often…  

-a-

 

If you fly the numbers it IS noticeabley different. IMO

[Hank]

5 hours ago, carusoam said:

If the plane flew noticeably different with the gear up vs. down…  (at TPA)

Mooney pilots wouldn’t land GU as often…  

-a-

 

I flew the old curving over-the-bay GPS approach into KECP, in the clouds, gear up. Now I know, if I can maintain airspeed or glideslope, check the gear. Whenever I held the slope, speed went way high; if I held the speed down, I went up above the glideslope. Broke out, saw the field, found my issue and was cleared for a miss and circle for VFR landing. Stuff happens, I was busy flying a curved GPS approach into the beach for the Mooney Summit, full of anticipation for the weekend, and only missed one tiny little thing--dropping the gear at glideslope intercept.

[LANCECASPER]

1 hour ago, Hank said:

I flew the old curving over-the-bay GPS approach into KECP, in the clouds, gear up. Now I know, if I can maintain airspeed or glideslope, check the gear. Whenever I held the slope, speed went way high; if I held the speed down, I went up above the glideslope. Broke out, saw the field, found my issue and was cleared for a miss and circle for VFR landing. Stuff happens, I was busy flying a curved GPS approach into the beach for the Mooney Summit, full of anticipation for the weekend, and only missed one tiny little thing--dropping the gear at glideslope intercept.

I used to drop gear at intercept, and had a similar thing to yours happen quite a few years ago. I eventually remembered to put the gear down on short final but only after that sinking feeling of knowing that I had forgot to put the gear down and the "that could have been me" sunk in.

I had a chance to fly with Gary Reeves in his weekend course in early 2020. His recommendation is to drop the gear before the initial approach fix, which mentally I fought as he was telling me about it. I watched him demonstrate it and it made all the sense in the world - get it stabilized, slowed down before you start descending and speeding up. You are still keeping your speed up to work with other traffic and can still speed up after gear is down if requested by ATC. This is the way I've done it since then (except for the MAPA instructor insisting that I do it at intercept back in January). I like early a lot better, especially if hand flying, one less thing to think about at intercept when a lot of things are going on. I like flying a glidepath at around 110 since, that's flap speed and I'll probably put some flaps in eventually anyway.

[David M20J]

anyone know of something or someone in the Phoenix area, dont have a lot of time to travel out of state

[hubcap]

5 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I used to drop gear at intercept, and had a similar thing to yours happen quite a few years ago. I eventually remembered to put the gear down on short final but only after that sinking feeling of knowing that I had forgot to put the gear down and the "that could have been me" sunk in.

I had a chance to fly with Gary Reeves in his weekend course in early 2020. His recommendation is to drop the gear before the initial approach fix, which mentally I fought as he was telling me about it. I watched him demonstrate it and it made all the sense in the world - get it stabilized, slowed down before you start descending and speeding up. You are still keeping your speed up to work with other traffic and can still speed up after gear is down if requested by ATC. This is the way I've done it since then (except for the MAPA instructor insisting that I do it at intercept back in January). I like early a lot better, especially if hand flying, one less thing to think about at intercept when a lot of things are going on. I like flying a glidepath at around 110 since, that's flap speed and I'll probably put some flaps in eventually anyway.

When I was working on my instrument rating in a C-172, I was trained to put the flaps in and configure for landing at the FAF. When I purchased my Mooney, the previous owner gave me instruction and advised on dropping the gear 1 mile before the FAF, and then flaps at FAF...that seems to work very well for me. It spreads out the work load and lets you get the plane stable before glideslope intercept. In my opinion, waiting for glideslope intercept to extend the gear, would run the risk of getting me behind the aircraft in a higher workload environment, particularly in hard IMC...just my .02

[midlifeflyer]

7 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

except for the MAPA instructor insisting that I do it at intercept back in January

Insisting on something that is purely one of a number of working techniques that is the worst sin an instructor can commit. Did the instructor even allow you to demonstrate it?

I won't change from dropping at intercept but I would never even think of trying to force  someone to change if they did it earlier.

Edited June 17, 2022 by midlifeflyer

[jaylw314]

8 hours ago, LANCECASPER said:

I used to drop gear at intercept, and had a similar thing to yours happen quite a few years ago. I eventually remembered to put the gear down on short final but only after that sinking feeling of knowing that I had forgot to put the gear down and the "that could have been me" sunk in.

I had a chance to fly with Gary Reeves in his weekend course in early 2020. His recommendation is to drop the gear before the initial approach fix, which mentally I fought as he was telling me about it. I watched him demonstrate it and it made all the sense in the world - get it stabilized, slowed down before you start descending and speeding up. You are still keeping your speed up to work with other traffic and can still speed up after gear is down if requested by ATC. This is the way I've done it since then (except for the MAPA instructor insisting that I do it at intercept back in January). I like early a lot better, especially if hand flying, one less thing to think about at intercept when a lot of things are going on. I like flying a glidepath at around 110 since, that's flap speed and I'll probably put some flaps in eventually anyway.

 

1 hour ago, hubcap said:

When I was working on my instrument rating in a C-172, I was trained to put the flaps in and configure for landing at the FAF. When I purchased my Mooney, the previous owner gave me instruction and advised on dropping the gear 1 mile before the FAF, and then flaps at FAF...that seems to work very well for me. It spreads out the work load and lets you get the plane stable before glideslope intercept. In my opinion, waiting for glideslope intercept to extend the gear, would run the risk of getting me behind the aircraft in a higher workload environment, particularly in hard IMC...just my .02

I really like that idea, I've always dropped the gear at the FAF

[PeteMc]

2 hours ago, hubcap said:

advised on dropping the gear 1 mile before the FAF

I was taught to drop the gear 1 dot above the GS (now that also includes the GP) or when getting within a mile of the FAF on  a non precision approach.

On the GS/GP with the power already set, you just start down.  Dropping the gear a bit before the FAF on a non precision approach gets you slowed down so you can descend right after the FAF.

[midlifeflyer]

8 hours ago, jaylw314 said:

I really like that idea, I've always dropped the gear at the FAF

7 hours ago, PeteMc said:

was taught to drop the gear 1 dot above the GS

I've heard Gary describe the technique and it makes sense. You  reconfigure into a simpler fixed gear airplane well before the FAF, requiring only a power reduction (and flaps if you like them) to start down. 

But the commonly taught "gear down to go down" makes just as much sense. Power set and airplane slowed to approach speed well before the FAF. Gear down and touch nothing else at the FAF and the airplane starts down at the target descent rate. 

I've experimented with Gary's technique and it's actually quite lovely. The faster the airplane, the earlier it gets you into the "slow down" mindset. What I don't think it does is change anything about concerns over forgetting the gear.  

Both will work but the gear is the reason I won't personally consider it. I've been flying retracts for 30 years using "gear down to go down" as SOP on instrument approaches and another for visual approaches. The closest (so far) I've come to a gear up was when I decided to change one of them and it was an incredibly minor distraction on a visual approach. 

 

[midlifeflyer]

Back to our regularly scheduled program...Pinch Hitter.

Jason Miller (The Finer Points) recently published a video of part of  pinch hitter training he gave to SoCal Flying Monkey's wife. But the two-part video of the training from Poppin's  perspective is the one for the potential pinch hitter to watch. This is a link to the 2 part playlist from her perspective. My wife watched and enjoyed it.

 

[jaylw314]

6 hours ago, midlifeflyer said:

I've heard Gary describe the technique and it makes sense. You  reconfigure into a simpler fixed gear airplane well before the FAF, requiring only a power reduction (and flaps if you like them) to start down. 

But the commonly taught "gear down to go down" makes just as much sense. Power set and airplane slowed to approach speed well before the FAF. Gear down and touch nothing else at the FAF and the airplane starts down at the target descent rate. 

I've experimented with Gary's technique and it's actually quite lovely. The faster the airplane, the earlier it gets you into the "slow down" mindset. What I don't think it does is change anything about concerns over forgetting the gear.  

Both will work but the gear is the reason I won't personally consider it. I've been flying retracts for 30 years using "gear down to go down" as SOP on instrument approaches and another for visual approaches. The closest (so far) I've come to a gear up was when I decided to change one of them and it was an incredibly minor distraction on a visual approach. 

I think IAP's are actually designed with the IF to FAF period being a "low activity" interval in the middle of fairly intense activity.  I think dropping the gear DURING that interval, I might be less likely to miss that than at the start of the descent

[Hank]

15 minutes ago, jaylw314 said:

I think IAP's are actually designed with the IF to FAF period being a "low activity" interval in the middle of fairly intense activity.  I think dropping the gear DURING that interval, I might be less likely to miss that than at the start of the descent

I don't drop my gear "at the start of descent." When I'm at approach speed with Takeoff Flaps out, level flight, and the glideslope is 1-1/2 dots above, dropping the gear and touching nothing will bring me right down the glideslope, needle centered, so I only have to worry about course.

So I drop the gear "to initiate descent."

[Speed Merchant]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:19 PM, Hank said:

I would think @mike_elliott could either do it or recommend someone. There was a Right Seat Ready course a few Mooney Summits ago, my wife liked it. But classroom only it was.

Thanks -I contacted him tryying to set something up.

[Speed Merchant]

On 6/15/2022 at 5:19 PM, Hank said:

I would think @mike_elliott could either do it or recommend someone. There was a Right Seat Ready course a few Mooney Summits ago, my wife liked it. But classroom only it was.

Thanks I have contacted him.