IO360TSIO-GB after Continental SB - starting procedure

[NicoN]

a couple of weeks ago our engine underwent the SB and the primer assembly has been removed.

For me, the (cold) starting procedure has changed only slightly, I may need a second more priming now. I have not been in a situation to do hot start.

Nevertheless, my co-owner called me yesterday; he was not able to start the tank after refueling and a 3,5h flight.

I recommended what worked for me:

- THR and Mixture closed

- Let the low boost pump clear the fuel lines with cold fuel

- THR and Mixture wide open

- prime for 3-4 seconds

- THR about 1/2"

- crank and pray

 

My co -owner now said, that fuel was running out of the cowling when doing  the cleaning procedure, even more when using the high-boost pump instead.

Finally the engine was flooded, battery drained, but he got it up and running with external power.

I am a bit astonished about the fuel coming out of the cowling even with mixture cut off (hpe it was really cut off and not Prop in lwo RPM)

Can you recommend something for hot starts fater the SB?

 

[carusoam]

Fuel pouring out while mixture is in idle cut-off…

is an indication of something not working as expected…

Find out why…. Get it fixed…

leaking fuel pumps sound like this…

-a-

 

[Aerodon]

Seems to me your guy did not do the whole conversion. Check to see if you have the drain valves with the 'dot' on one of the faces.  My guess is if you have one of the old style, the fuel will drain out immediately.  The new one will 'dam' the fuel until it is used in the starting, and overflow if you over prime.

BTW, the small hole does not go through on mine, I have mixed answers on whether it should or not.

 

I found the new priming system better than the old - it is more logical to prime every cylinder than one place in the manifold.  My engine starts first time within a few cranks.

 

 

Don

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Phil EF]

Mine starts easier after the primer system removal. 
Hot start for mine :

Throttle closed, mixture cut-off, three seconds of fuel pump on, fuel pump off, mixture rich and starts immediately. 

[kortopates]

Seems to me your guy did not do the whole conversion. Check to see if you have the drain valves with the 'dot' on one of the faces.  My guess is if you have one of the old style, the fuel will drain out immediately.  The new one will 'dam' the fuel until it is used in the starting, and overflow if you over prime.
BTW, the small hole does not go through on mine, I have mixed answers on whether it should or not.
 
I found the new priming system better than the old - it is more logical to prime every cylinder than one place in the manifold.  My engine starts first time within a few cranks.
 
 
Don
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

my thoughts exactly - check your drains.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NicoN]

Okay. Just talked to the A/P who did the SB

Hes says we still have 2 or 4 of the old drain valves. He was not able to order the valves.

Is there a shortage of these parts? Where can I get them?

 

[Z W]

Hot start that works for me:

For a very short stop (fuel or passenger loading only), just mixture in and turn the key.  Leave the throttle cracked a half turn, or wherever it was to idle before shutdown.  Usually fires up right away.

For slightly longer stops, 30 minutes or so, mixture to idle cut-off, low boost on, let it run up to build pressure and flush the lines, then low boost off.  Crank to start.  If it doesn't immediately start, use short periods of prime pump (2-3 seconds each) between cranks until it catches.  These are the hardest starts.  Sometimes it floods.  If it does, go to flooded start procedure:

Mixture full rich, throttle full forward.  Prime pump 8-10 seconds (intentionally making sure the engine is flooded).  Mixture to idle cut off.  Crank until it catches, then quickly go full rich mixture and throttle to idle, simultaneously if possible.  This will start it every time.  Same process you use to start a weedeater, just on a bigger scale.  This one has saved me from several dead batteries on the ramp.  It does result in fuel dripping out from the bottom of the cowling.  It will also save you if you over-prime for a cold start, and I've been told it works in every model of airplane.

Before every start - Warn any nervous passengers that it's not like a car engine and can be hard to start, but once it's started, it stays running really well.  GA has a bad enough reputation and I think it's things like this that add to it.

[NicoN]

INteresting.

I guess, you have a TSIO360(non-G)B. Do you have the Service bulletin done ?

[PeteMc]

On 5/18/2022 at 7:29 AM, NicoN said:

I may need a second more priming now.

Actually, that's backwards.  My mechanic was very clear after the change to use much less prime than I had been using and that is indicated in the POH.  You're now injecting fuel into all the cylinders, not just one, so it is easy to over prime. 

In addition to having the old drain valves, this may be what got your partner with the hot start if you're both using the old priming or EXTRA priming as you indicated.  

For a cold start I use about half the prime I used to use based on the temperature and I make sure I give the fuel time to atomize.  For a hot start, I give the fuel pump about 1 second to make sure the lines are primed, then start normally.  And I'm not sure if it's just my throttle cable that was changed in an annual or a difference since the priming change, but I have to give the throttle an extra twist in.   For years it was 3 turns in and since the priming change it is now 4.  

[Fly Boomer]

22 hours ago, PeteMc said:

For years it was 3 turns in and since the priming change it is now 4.  

What's the RPM after it lights?

[Marc_B]

For flushing the fuel lines with hot start I've seen throttle closed, mixture idle cutoff and boost for anywhere from 10-30 sec;  but I've also seen throttle full open with mixture idle cutoff...just wondering if there is any difference in the process and where the fuel gets routed.  From what I understand, this is just flushing the fuel lines with cooler fuel from the tanks and clearing out any hot fuel that has vaporized.

Throttle open or closed?  does it matter?

[PeteMc]

4 hours ago, Fly Boomer said:

What's the RPM after it lights?

+/-1000 just like before.  I'm assuming it's a cable adjustment thing were someone set it and now to get to the same position on the actual throttle I need to twist that extra bit.  And I guess I should have said "twists" since I do not mean a full turn.  I'll guess one of my "twists" is about a half turn or maybe a little more, so it's approx two+ "turns" in.  Just more than I used to have to do.

[Fly Boomer]

13 minutes ago, PeteMc said:

And I guess I should have said "twists" since I do not mean a full turn.

Got it.  Thanks.

[Aerodon]

On 5/19/2022 at 12:27 AM, NicoN said:

Okay. Just talked to the A/P who did the SB

Hes says we still have 2 or 4 of the old drain valves. He was not able to order the valves.

Is there a shortage of these parts? Where can I get them?

 

I have one spare used one if it helps? 

 

Aerodon