ENGINE CASE CRACK FOUND ON FRIDAY 13

[ELT]

I would like any advice/experience you guys have on a cracked case on an IO360.  The background is an oil drip for several years.  2 AIs believed it was at the case mating surface.  We just removed the alternator and found a crack on both case halves near the alternator attach.  Shadrach has delt with this.  The engine is 700SMOH and 18 years.  Runs good and on prebuy 6 years ago had no internal corrosion.  Options are (1) repair (2) major overhaul (3) sell as is and cut my losses.  I am interested in your experiences with engine shops in NC, SC or VA.  My mechanic has talked to Triad Aviation in Burlington NC. 

We have the landing gear off for rebush and powder coat.  Unfortunately with the landing gear rework and engine overhaul I am possibly looking at repairs exceeding the value of the airplane in the current market.

Any input will be helpful.

Eddie

[jetdriven]

you can dissasemble, measure and inspect everything.  If all the bits are good, you can send off the case to get repaired by DIVCO and reassemble.  Ross did this and replaced a great many things for 7K

 

 

[Steve65E-NC]

All my experience with Triad has been good.  I have delt with them about five times on things large and small.  I have not had them do an overhaul but would consider them seriously if I needed one.  There is a lot to say for having a rebuild shop within reasonable distance for flying or driving.  I would probably let my local do the remove and install if he has the capability.   Sorry, no personal experience with cracked blocks.  Looks like your usage is low.  You have apparently flown with this situation for a while, how high is the risk of continuing.  Achmed at Triad might advise you on this he has always been good with advise for me.   I like the Ney nozzle idea, wonder if Triad could provide those.

[Shadrach]

Quote: nosky2high

I highly recommend Aero Engines of Winchester VA, give Tom a call (540) 678-1661. You won't find a better deal anywhere. Most of the aircraft on our airfield including the flight school ship our engines to Tom. In my situation I found some metal in the oil pickup screen, oil analysis was reporting okay wear and tear. But I pulled the engine just to be on the safe side. Tom disassembled the engine, installed new main and rod bearings, nuts, and bolts, reassembled with new gaskets and seals; shipped and returned the engine to me for around $2,000. The nearest shop in my area wouldn't touch my engine for less than $5K. Tom has an account with a shipping company, I'll I had to do was put the engine on a pallet and the truck came to the airport to pick it up. I had the engine back within 3 weeks. Outstanding communication throughout the transaction. Tom and his shop have my highest recommendation.

[KSMooniac]

Quote: jetdriven

you can dissasemble, measure and inspect everything.  If all the bits are good, you can send off the case to get repaired by DIVCO and reassemble.  Ross did this and replaced a great many things for 7K

[Shadrach]

 

 

You can't call it a major without sending out the cam and crank for inspection and reconditioning if necessary, as well as many other items that are required to be called a legal OH.  This will add considerable expense if you want to go that route.

 

 

The crank is likely still at new tolerances.  Visual inspection of the cam will tell your builder how it's wearing (or not wearing). The disassembler/builder should look very closely at the lifters for even "grain of salt" sized evidence of pitting; they are cheap ($40ish each) to regrind.  This would be a good time to have the cylinders IRAN'd. I had new exhaust valves put in and had the valves relapped by hand. They will likely not remove the pistons from the rod, so those bearings will stay in place. Obviously the connecting rods need not be removed from the crank. You will want new main bearings installed as it just makes sense to do this when it's apart. 

 

 

When we discovered my case crack I had my IA finish the annual with the discrepancy stated. I then set to work. I borrowed an engine hoist from a neighbor and began asking the advice of others on how to proceed.  At the end of the day I followed the MX manuals very brief removal instructions and improvised the rest. It took about 8hrs or so to remove.  

 

 

Anyway, WRT the engine - the disassembly, reassembly and everything in-between cost me about $3800 IIRC. This included all of the cylinder work (guides, lapping, and a light hone), the case overhaul (Crankcase Services, Tulsa OK - $800 in the breakdown) and all of the additional items such as bearings, lifters, etc.  

 

 

At this time I elected to have the motor mount media blasted and powder coated locally ($200).

 

 

I inspected the mags with my IA (75$, no repair needed).

 

 

I replaced all of the fuel and oil lines with serviceable units that I had custom made from my old fittings and and lightly used units from another project. I also put new fire sleeving on all hoses whether it came that way from the factory or not (all in about $300).

 

 

New Adel clamps, spiral wrap, mechanics lacquer (torque seal) and other sundry items germane to hanging an engine (~$100)

 

 

The IA that supervised the install charged me $300.

 

 

So all in, I have about $4800 in it from grounding to first flight on the new engine/crankcase.

 

 

Being that you likely be paying someone else to do it, I'd figure on about $3500 to 4000 for removal and installation and about $4000-4500 for the case repair and other work.

 

 

So if your treated well, you're probably looking at between $8K and $9K.

 

 

If you want more info on the install I'd be happy to go into it, but I'll wait for your request before I bore you with it!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Shadrach

[Ned Gravel]

Eddie:

I feel your pain.  Three years ago, I was where you are now.  Dripping oil that looked like it was coming from the through bolts.  The local engine shop guy came over to the MSC and we did a little test that proved the crankcase had lost integrity somehow.  Turns out it was a 7" crack that started behind number 2 and travelled down and backwards.

I opted for overhaul because there were just too many things that needed doing.  If I had Shadrach's knowledge and experience, I might have taken the job on as he did.  But I did not and I do not believe I would do so today.

I now have a bright sparkly engine that runs real solid and has 200+ hours on it.

[gregwatts]

Quote: ELT

I would like any advice/experience you guys have on a cracked case on an IO360. The background is an oil drip for several years. 2 AIs believed it was at the case mating surface. We just removed the alternator and found a crack on both case halves near the alternator attach. Shadrach has delt with this. The engine is 700SMOH and 18 years. Runs good and on prebuy 6 years ago had no internal corrosion. Options are (1) repair (2) major overhaul (3) sell as is and cut my losses. I am interested in your experiences with engine shops in NC, SC or VA. My mechanic has talked to Triad Aviation in Burlington NC.

We have the landing gear off for rebush and powder coat. Unfortunately with the landing gear rework and engine overhaul I am possibly looking at repairs exceeding the value of the airplane in the current market.

Any input will be helpful.

Eddie

[Shadrach]

Open it and have a look before you decide to do anything...

[ELT]

Hi Guys,

I want to thank you for your input.  I am most likely going the IRAN route.  Aero Engines at this time looks like the top of the list for tear down and inspection.  I like Triad but Othman told me I should expect a $25-$26K overhaul.  Too rich for my blood and at the price the top ranked engine shops.  Ross, I may want to pose some questions to you after I research engine shops more. More to come.

Thanks,

Eddie

[aviatoreb]

Quote: ELT

Hi Guys,

I want to thank you for your input.  I am most likely going the IRAN route.  Aero Engines at this time looks like the top of the list for tear down and inspection.  I like Triad but Othman told me I should expect a $25-$26K overhaul.  Too rich for my blood and at the price the top ranked engine shops.  Ross, I may want to pose some questions to you after I research engine shops more. More to come.

Thanks,

Eddie

[140pilot]

What about buying a low to mid time engine from a salvage facility. They often have engines off wind/hail damaged aircrat that were not prop strikes then sell the current engine to an experimental guy as a core.

 

[garytex]

Don't forget the "Do nothing" alternative.  With the advise of a good smart A & P, maybe you could do nothing.  If the crack's only ouchie is an oil drip, let it drip, as it has been doing for a while now.  We all unknowingly fly around with cracked heads and cases constantly.  Think about the laundry list of things like that found on teardown at your last overhaul.  But the engine was plugging along, making power, etc.

Gary 

[ELT]

Hi Guys,

I plan to have a prayer meeting with my mechanic tomorrow.  My proposal to him is to remove the engine and ship it to Aero Engines of Winchester Va.  I want AE to tear down and inspect the engine.  Probably I will go the same route as Ross.  Inspect and Repair As Necessry (IRAN).  I hope the IRAN will be less than 6AMUs.  My mechanic quoted  2AMU for remove and install.  I hope to replace engine hoses, rubber mounts, alternator belt and hardware for about 1.5 AMU.  I have the landig gear off for rebush and power coat with a gestimate of 3 AMU. I will be doing an owner assisted annual (engine and landing gear is 80% of the annual). Most accessories are low time but other than Prop, mags, vacuum pump and starter are more than 10 years since new or OH.

Questions: Your experiences with AE? and is 14AMUs a reasonable expectaion?

Thanks Eddie

[N601RX]

If your willing to get your hands dirty and like doing that kind of stuff the 2AMU to remove and replace can be reduced to .2AMU

Also a word of caution about the quotes ranging from 20 to 25K that people have posted.  Some of these quotes will reuse your old cam, lifters and cylinders.  If they are not reusable then you will be charged extra.  When comparing these quotes ask for a list of parts that are automatically replaced.  You will be suprised at the big name shops that are reusing these parts on what they call a major overhaul.

[jetdriven]

14K to IRAN an 18 year old engine is not much of a value.  Consider that about half or more of that is labor. If you are willing to get dirty, you can save that.  If not, you will be paying.

Quote: ELT

Hi Guys,

I plan to have a prayer meeting with my mechanic tomorrow.  My proposal to him is to remove the engine and ship it to Aero Engines of Winchester Va.  I want AE to tear down and inspect the engine.  Probably I will go the same route as Ross.  Inspect and Repair As Necessry (IRAN).  I hope the IRAN will be less than 6AMUs.  My mechanic quoted  2AMU for remove and install.  I hope to replace engine hoses, rubber mounts, alternator belt and hardware for about 1.5 AMU.  I have the landig gear off for rebush and power coat with a gestimate of 3 AMU. I will be doing an owner assisted annual (engine and landing gear is 80% of the annual). Most accessories are low time but other than Prop, mags, vacuum pump and starter are more than 10 years since new or OH.

Questions: Your experiences with AE? and is 14AMUs a reasonable expectaion?

Thanks Eddie

[jetdriven]

Gary, that not even remotely an option. A cracked case engine is not airworthy by anyone's definition.

Quote: garytex

Don't forget the "Do nothing" alternative.  With the advise of a good smart A & P, maybe you could do nothing.  If the crack's only ouchie is an oil drip, let it drip, as it has been doing for a while now.  We all unknowingly fly around with cracked heads and cases constantly.  Think about the laundry list of things like that found on teardown at your last overhaul.  But the engine was plugging along, making power, etc.

Gary 

[Shadrach]

Quote: garytex

Don't forget the "Do nothing" alternative.  With the advise of a good smart A & P, maybe you could do nothing.  If the crack's only ouchie is an oil drip, let it drip, as it has been doing for a while now.  We all unknowingly fly around with cracked heads and cases constantly.  Think about the laundry list of things like that found on teardown at your last overhaul.  But the engine was plugging along, making power, etc.

Gary 

[Shadrach]

Quote: ELT

Hi Guys,

I plan to have a prayer meeting with my mechanic tomorrow.  My proposal to him is to remove the engine and ship it to Aero Engines of Winchester Va.  I want AE to tear down and inspect the engine.  Probably I will go the same route as Ross.  Inspect and Repair As Necessry (IRAN).  I hope the IRAN will be less than 6AMUs.  My mechanic quoted  2AMU for remove and install.  I hope to replace engine hoses, rubber mounts, alternator belt and hardware for about 1.5 AMU.  I have the landig gear off for rebush and power coat with a gestimate of 3 AMU. I will be doing an owner assisted annual (engine and landing gear is 80% of the annual). Most accessories are low time but other than Prop, mags, vacuum pump and starter are more than 10 years since new or OH.

Questions: Your experiences with AE? and is 14AMUs a reasonable expectaion?

Thanks Eddie

[butchgilbert]

ELT, I had a similar situation (large crack below #2 cylinder, this is where they normally crack).

I was hesitant to do the overhaul, but I am sure glad I did, I fell in love the airplane all over again, because it was SAFE. I had Zephyrhills (I live in Tampa) do the overhaul. After 18 years of faithful service, if you still want to fly, get the engine overhauled. You'll be glad you did, except when the bill comes due.

Not to make things worse, but if you do the overhaul, take the time and do he prop as well, include the prop governor as well, that way no matter what else fails in the future, you'll have confidence in the engine and prop to get you home safe.

 

Good luck.

[Shadrach]

Quote: butchgilbert

ELT, I had a similar situation (large crack below #2 cylinder, this is where they normally crack).

I was hesitant to do the overhaul, but I am sure glad I did, I fell in love the airplane all over again, because it was SAFE. I had Zephyrhills (I live in Tampa) do the overhaul. After 18 years of faithful service, if you still want to fly, get the engine overhauled. You'll be glad you did, except when the bill comes due.

Not to make things worse, but if you do the overhaul, take the time and do he prop as well, include the prop governor as well, that way no matter what else fails in the future, you'll have confidence in the engine and prop to get you home safe.

 

Good luck.

[ELT]

The plan is to have Aero Engines of Winchester check the engine and advise on IRAN or MOH. IRAN or MOH we will OH the prop governor, fuel servo, fuel pump, hoses and vacuum pump.  The prop is only 100 hours since factory new and the mags were exchanged at the same time.

Eddie

[N601RX]

Quote: Shadrach

Yes, Charles Merlot (Zephyr Engines) in Zephyrhills FL is one of the good ones!!!