Dispatch with 1 dead battery

[hais]

I can't find the reference, but I believe I once saw a posting stating that operating the alternator with one battery dead can overload the electrical system. Can you help confirm? 

I'm trying to assess whether I can fly out the airplane to a mechanic to replace a dead #2 battery. 

[kortopates]

I can't confirm that either way but its just a matter of starting up on the good battery and seeing a normal ammeter/load indication. But if the Amps are 30-40 or more , which is what you could see on the dead battery, and doesn't come down right away, then that is really hard on the alternator. But I expect you won't see that as long as your on the good battery, but good to verify before departing.

But if you look at your KOEL in the limitations section of your POH you'll read both batteries are required for even Day VFR. 

Edit: Maybe what your thinking of is that it can be hard on the system to switch batteries after you start up and then switch to the weak battery. That is ill advised.   

Edited April 11, 2022 by kortopates

[StevenL757]

@kortopates Paul’s AFM reference that dispatching with anything less than two good batteries in the Ovation is correct.

If you haven’t tried charging the dead battery and then doing a capacity check, I would suggest that first.  If the capacity check is below 70% or the battery doesn’t charge, order a replacement (either the Concorde RG24-15, or RG24-15M).  If you aren’t comfortable replacing it, I suggest having a mechanic come to you.  Realizing batteries aren’t cheap, I’d still suggest checking the other one while you’re in there…if it’s close to the same age as the suspect battery.  Never hurts to change both at the same time if the other is close.

Could someone from either Abbottsford or Bellingham, WA be able to make the short trip for a beer and a bit of gas money?  Just thinking out loud for something that might help you if you aren’t comfortable changing batteries on your own.  Anything to keep from flying the airplane with a bad battery…which is essentially the same as one battery missing…a no-no.

Steve

[Aerodon]

HAIS,

Is your plane still at CYCW - just order a new battery from Firkus or Chief's and get someone there to change it for you? 

And get the best Concorde you can find and look after it properly (battery minders etc.) and it will last 10 years.

Aerodon

 

 

[hais]

#1 was replaced with a new one last month. #2 failed capacity check. I wanted to remove it, but there's a safety harness I'd have to cut off that I don't have a replacement for, so I figured I'll take it to CYCW as I was already planning to take it there to service the TKS system.

I'll have it replaced locally. Thanks for the POH tip @kortopates, @StevenL757

[hypertech]

What kind of safety harness?  The only thing holding mine down is the bar and I'm pretty sure a new one comes in the box.  Getting a Gill out past the O2 tank is hard, but swapping a concorde is much easier.  They are not as tall.

[StevenL757]

5 minutes ago, hypertech said:

What kind of safety harness?  The only thing holding mine down is the bar and I'm pretty sure a new one comes in the box.  Getting a Gill out past the O2 tank is hard, but swapping a concorde is much easier.  They are not as tall.

Agree.  I'd suggest the RG24-15, rather than the -15M.  The latter is taller and includes the vent hole, which really isn't needed on a sealed lead acid battery.  Although both models weigh the same, the RG24-15 is shorter, has a rope to help lift it in and out of the tray, and comes with the hold-down bar (held in place by two safety-wired wing nuts).

[LANCECASPER]

9 hours ago, StevenL757 said:

Agree.  I'd suggest the RG24-15, rather than the -15M.  The latter is taller and includes the vent hole, which really isn't needed on a sealed lead acid battery.  Although both models weigh the same, the RG24-15 is shorter, has a rope to help lift it in and out of the tray, and comes with the hold-down bar (held in place by two safety-wired wing nuts).

I agree that the 24-15 is preferred over the -15M. No holes in the fuselage or vent hoses needed.

Also there is nothing sacred about safety wire holding the tie-down on the battery. Lock washers under the wings nuts also suffice and make it so much easier to pull the battery out for capacity checks that mechanics may actually do it.

[hais]

12 hours ago, hypertech said:

What kind of safety harness?  The only thing holding mine down is the bar and I'm pretty sure a new one comes in the box.  Getting a Gill out past the O2 tank is hard, but swapping a concorde is much easier.  They are not as tall.

It was really hard to get it out - and that was the Concorde. The thing is sandwiched between the O2 tank, the trim servo, and the body. Took one hour trying different orientations! Is it true then what they say about mechanics hating working on Mooneys?

I underestimated the satisfaction coming out of doing these things, it was quite a joy at the end! 

[hais]

Btw, what function does the jacket serve? It has a wired connector. Is it grounding? If so, why not a simple connection to the body?

[carusoam]

37 minutes ago, hais said:

Btw, what function does the jacket serve? It has a wired connector. Is it grounding? If so, why not a simple connection to the body?

Looks like insulation for the battery… seen in various automobiles…. Not seen in my O1…

Batteries are easy to install without the tank in place… 

PP notes only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

On my O that solenoid is on the forward side of the tray. That way, all you need to do is take off the hold down strap on top, remove one screw on the aft post, loosen the other screw, lean the post over and pull the battery out aft. Might want to consider a relocation of the solenoid for future ease of removal.

As for the blanket, if it has wires, sounds like it is electrically heated. IMHO it is far easier just to put a charger on the battery during cold weather than a heat blanket.

 

[hais]

Heating function is plausible since this O used to live in cold weather. How would the heating work when parked? 

[carusoam]

26 minutes ago, hais said:

Heating function is plausible since this O used to live in cold weather. How would the heating work when parked? 

Ever go outside to start the car at lunch time…. So the car would start at the end of the day to go home?

This is more of a center of the country arctic blast kind of thing…

Where temps close to 0°F slow the battery chemistry…

Probably works just by plugging it in to 110V… it will provide simple heat in terms of dT…. Or get connected to a thermo sensitive power supply…

Look for a wire coming out of it, and see where it goes…

Its possible that it uses 24V…  you would want to know where the switch for that is to keep from draining the battery…

PP thoughts only, not a mechanic…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeeBee]

I would assume it is AC powered. That is why I said hooking a charger would be more efficient.

 

 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, hais said:

Heating function is plausible since this O used to live in cold weather. How would the heating work when parked? 

It’s likely connected to the engine pre heat circuit.  Looks like a Tanis product.

Clarence

[carusoam]

Tanis web site doesn’t seem very friendly…

-a-

 

pic of the Tanis battery heater, choice of AC voltage supply…

Part of an overall 3AMU preheat kit…

 

[StevenL757]

On 4/12/2022 at 1:31 AM, hais said:

It was really hard to get it out - and that was the Concorde. The thing is sandwiched between the O2 tank, the trim servo, and the body. Took one hour trying different orientations! Is it true then what they say about mechanics hating working on Mooneys?

I underestimated the satisfaction coming out of doing these things, it was quite a joy at the end! 

Yeah, they're not only heavy but cumbersome.  I've only replaced a dozen or so between several folks' airplanes including my own, and none of them were easy.

The shorter RG24-15 will make life a bit easier on you.  Good job sticking with it and not damaging anything - especially that relay and bracket assembly on the left.  Just make sure you clean the try before putting the new battery in.  Also check that relay and bracket to make sure it's attached well, and that no screws backed out during your battery removal.

As always, pics of the new battery are always appreciated to help others who may need to do this, but haven't done so.

[thinwing]

ive found that it is far easier to  pop out rear bulkhead carpet ,remove access cover to o2 tank,disconnect o2 supply line ,loosen o2 tank mounts and slide o2 tank forward out of the way...sounds like a lot of work...but 20 minuites...and gives you complete access to that battery...#2 i believe as # 1 is on pilots side.In an emergency...I would also simply launch on the good battery...but you didnt hear that from me.