Would You Rather have 2 x GI275's or a G3X 10"?

[PT20J]

The KAP 150 is still a fine autopilot. Mine in smooth air would hold altitude within ten feet. 

If you are keeping the KAP 150, you might want to consider an Aspen PFD. I had a GNS 430W, KX 165, KAP 150 and Aspen EFD 1000 and it worked great. I could fly LPV and ILS approaches fully coupled with GS/GP and the Aspen provided a GPSS output allowing the autopilot to use roll steering from the GNS 430W. You can retrofit the existing panel, in my experience Aspen's tech support is far superior to Garmin's, and the new MAX products are have faster processors and brighter displays. It's not as great an option for the KFC 150 because you cannot get the flight director to work with the Aspen, but since you don't have the flight director, it doesn't matter.

The only reason I upgraded is to improve the reliability. I just found that keeping a panel of older avionics running was turning into a game of whack-a-mole.

Skip

[LANCECASPER]

21 minutes ago, PT20J said:

The KAP 150 is still a fine autopilot. Mine in smooth air would hold altitude within ten feet. 

If you are keeping the KAP 150, you might want to consider an Aspen PFD. I had a GNS 430W, KX 165, KAP 150 and Aspen EFD 1000 and it worked great. I could fly LPV and ILS approaches fully coupled with GS/GP and the Aspen provided a GPSS output allowing the autopilot to use roll steering from the GNS 430W. You can retrofit the existing panel, in my experience Aspen's tech support is far superior to Garmin's, and the new MAX products are have faster processors and brighter displays. It's not as great an option for the KFC 150 because you cannot get the flight director to work with the Aspen, but since you don't have the flight director, it doesn't matter.

The only reason I upgraded is to improve the reliability. I just found that keeping a panel of older avionics running was turning into a game of whack-a-mole.

Skip

I did a three screen Aspen on a previous Mooney I owned which had a KFC150, and the flight director displayed on the PFD.

[PT20J]

1 hour ago, LANCECASPER said:

I did a three screen Aspen on a previous Mooney I owned which had a KFC150, and the flight director displayed on the PFD.

You're right, of course -- you just need the EA100. I was thinking of the GFC 500 which won't work with the Aspen FD. I think the Aspen is a really nice solution if someone isn't going to go all Garmin because it works well with a wide array of existing avionics from other manufacturers. It also has a pretty clean intuitive user interface. However, if you want or need the GFC 500, it drives you to a Garmin panel because the distributed nature of the GFC 500 design is unlike other autopilots and it won't work with non-Garmin PFDs

[slowflyin]

Not sure if it's been discussed but I don't think the g3X will drive your existing AP.   I have the KFC150 and went through the same process.  It's been a year or so and the details are fading.  The bottom line for my situation was roughly a 10k delta between the 275s and one big Garmin screen if I wanted to keep my old AP.  

[81X]

I’m going G3X in my M20K most notably to replace aging analog gauges and integrate my unserviceable annunciation panel into the G3X.  Also, you can supposedly do cool things like tie your gear position into it as it has a prominent built in gear warning. 

 

 

 

[Mooney in Oz]

13 hours ago, 81X said:

I’m going G3X in my M20K most notably to replace aging analog gauges and integrate my unserviceable annunciation panel into the G3X.  Also, you can supposedly do cool things like tie your gear position into it as it has a prominent built in gear warning. 

Gear position is only available on the experimental G3X as is flap and trim indication, despite the incorrect info contained in the POH. You will therefore require a separate means of annunciation.

I had my original annunciator overhauled and it looks fine on top of the stack.

I’m not aware of the built in gear warning.

Edited January 31, 2022 by Mooney in Oz

[PT20J]

3 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

’m not aware of the built in gear warning.

There isn’t one unless you consider the “500” feet AGL announcement to be a gear warning. 

[PT20J]

20 hours ago, slowflyin said:

Not sure if it's been discussed but I don't think the g3X will drive your existing AP.   I have the KFC150 and went through the same process. 

It depends. You have a KFC, so the G3X isn’t a good match because it won’t support the KFC flight director. But for a KAP 150 it would have the following capabilities

EDIT: Note that these are only lateral modes and you would still need something to drive pitch and roll (for instance keeping the KG 258). So the Aspen or GI 275 are better options if you want to eliminate the gyro. Also, not being able to select nav sources seems a pretty severe limitation.

[81X]

15 hours ago, Mooney in Oz said:

Gear position is only available on the experimental G3X as is flap and trim indication, despite the incorrect info contained in the POH. You will therefore require a separate means of annunciation.

I had my original annunciator overhauled and it looks fine on top of the stack.

I’m not aware of the built in gear warning.

Yes, I’m having old school lights put in for the official gear annunciation. 

 

[bmcconnaha]

Dual G3x going in mine at the moment. Not a fan of the 275.  Too small.  If I was concerned of the budget and wasn’t planning a full overhaul of the panel, I might have considered a 275.  But, at this point I just decided to do it all and be done with it.  

[GeneralT001]

8 hours ago, bmcconnaha said:

Dual G3x going in mine at the moment. Not a fan of the 275.  Too small.  If I was concerned of the budget and wasn’t planning a full overhaul of the panel, I might have considered a 275.  But, at this point I just decided to do it all and be done with it.  

Yeah...its a big bill in the end but I'll probably also go with the G3X and the GTN750Xi...plus the extra NAV/COM, the Audio Panel, the ADS-B In/Out, Transponder, new panel, etc, etc............

[Utah20Gflyer]

If you are trying to economize on panel space the GI 275s replace the 6 pack completely and don't require an additional backup.   They also have the advantage of you want to do things incrementally or need to interface with older equipment.   I went for the 275 and like them quite a bit.   They have a lot of functionality for their size.  

[RobertGary1]

On 1/28/2022 at 12:21 PM, David Lloyd said:

My Mooney has two GI275s and a GTX375 installed.  Great setup.  I've spent some time with a GTN750 and about 500 hours with a Dynon Skyview.

The two options you list 275/375 or G3X/750, make for a difficult decision. Either, you will really enjoy.

I would probably go with the G3X panel, more screen space and more information on one screen.  Is it compatible with your autopilot?

The Dynon would show the six pack similar to the G3X.  Limits what you can see.  If you want to fly a six pack, don't buy glass.

The most difficult thing for me to use is the airspeed tape.  No choice flying with the Dynon, there was no analog airspeed needle.  With the 275s, I kept my steam gauge ASI, altimeter, VSI (will be removed this year) and T&B (Stec autopilot).  I haven't been able to train my eyes away from the airspeed needle on short final.  I have even taped over the steam gauges for about 20 flying hours.  Durn, here comes the painter's tape again.

I have the same setup. In imc I tend to use the tape but in the pattern I use the steam airspeed and altimeter because I can see it from the corner of my eye. 
I also kept the vac attitude which helped when a software bug took out both my 275’s so I’d certainly recommend that. Read the Canadian NTSB report of the atp in a Mooney who had a dual 275 failure in the clouds. Disneyland doesn’t have a ride like that. 

[carusoam]

Well described, Robert!

-a-

[Browncbr1]

If you are making navigator decisions based on project cost, then go with a 650 and flush mount interface an Aera 660 right above it..  there’s your 750 and you have battery backup with syn vision. 
 

once you e had electrical failure, you appreciate battery backups.  That’s why I went with dual G5s instead of all the other more expensive whiz bang options.  
 

once you’ve had pitot failure while flying behind an Aspen, you won’t like them either.  

[hais]

@GeneralT001 did the shops tell you we currently cannot do panel upgrades in Canada? As of May last year, TC isn't recognizing FAA STCs. If your airplane is type certified in Canada, you now need a Canadian STC. 

We were planning to start installation this month when our shop discovered that. No word whether Garmin will be required to get a Canadian STC, or whether TC will allow. We are sitting on shiny new avionics, unable to install.

As to your question: we picked G3X dual display (10 and 7). 

[hais]

Caught lots of shops by surprise. There was a meeting two weeks ago with TC representatives to discuss the issue. Some shops say business has come to a screeching halt.

[hais]

And worse, if you import an airplane that was upgraded via STC, you can't fly it! Heard a tell of one business that bought 4 identical airplanes. Three arrived before May, they can fly those. One after May, and that is one grounded. 

Anyway, rant over

[carusoam]

Time to call AOPA Canada…. Stat!

AOPA is really good at keeping governments from accidentally preventing aviation…

-a-

[hais]

20 minutes ago, carusoam said:

Time to call AOPA Canada…. Stat!

AOPA is really good at keeping governments from accidentally preventing aviation…

-a-

Accidentally? Well, it didn't occur to me there was a rational explanation!

[GeneralT001]

1 hour ago, hais said:

Accidentally? Well, it didn't occur to me there was a rational explanation!

I sent an email off and will see what the response is

[carusoam]

This situation seems to be sort of serious for a lot of people…

You might want to start a thread just for this…

Best regards,

-a-

[GeneralT001]

Just now, carusoam said:

This situation seems to be sort of serious for a lot of people…

You might want to start a thread just for this…

Best regards,

-a-

Doesn't really make much sense...its not like Garmin has a sketchy reputation. Canada sucks in so many ways of late.

[bmcconnaha]

13 hours ago, Browncbr1 said:

If you are making navigator decisions based on project cost, then go with a 650 and flush mount interface an Aera 660 right above it..  there’s your 750 and you have battery backup with syn vision. 
 

once you e had electrical failure, you appreciate battery backups.  That’s why I went with dual G5s instead of all the other more expensive whiz bang options.  
 

once you’ve had pitot failure while flying behind an Aspen, you won’t like them either.  

New models changed how they deal with a pitot failure. You no longer lose everything.  It keeps it all functional, just in a reduced accuracy 

[GeneralT001]

20 hours ago, hais said:

@GeneralT001 did the shops tell you we currently cannot do panel upgrades in Canada? As of May last year, TC isn't recognizing FAA STCs. If your airplane is type certified in Canada, you now need a Canadian STC. 

We were planning to start installation this month when our shop discovered that. No word whether Garmin will be required to get a Canadian STC, or whether TC will allow. We are sitting on shiny new avionics, unable to install.

As to your question: we picked G3X dual display (10 and 7). 

Apparently that limitation does not apply to the J models?