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Where to buy leather

JimB

By JimB
in General Mooney Talk

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JimB Proficient

JimB

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Has anyone bought aviation hides with burn certifications to redo interior parts and seats? If so, could you share where you purchased and what you got and if you're happy with it? I have been looking for a winter project and have found a few places but thought I would ask. 

Thanks

A64Pilot Grand Master

A64Pilot

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We don’t need burn certs, but if you want them anyway they aren’t expensive to get. I’d go for very high quality leather and get it certified if I wanted to as opposed to likely lower quality, overpriced “aviation leather”

FAR 23 airplanes need burn certs I think. CAR 3 airplanes which I think we are only need a no smoking placard and the material doesn’t readily support combustion or similar verbiage, I’ll see if I can find it.

I’d look real hard at Ultrafabrics Ultraleather, of course it comes in different grades like everything, but it wears and feels better than leather to me.

Edited by A64Pilot
JimB Proficient

JimB

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3 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

We don’t need burn certs, but if you want them anyway they aren’t expensive to get. I’d go for very high quality leather and get it certified if I wanted to as opposed or likely lower, overpriced “aviation leather”

FAR 23 airplanes need burn certs I think. CAR 3 airplanes which I think we are only need a no smoking placard and the material doesn’t readily support combustion or similar verbiage, I’ll see if I can find it.

I’d look real hard at Ultrafabrics Ultraleather, of course it comes in different grades like everything, but it wears and feels better than leather to me.

Thanks. I agree and I am not that concerned with certs for a Car3 aircraft but I don't want any issues if and when I go to sell. And I do like the UltraLeather products. We used the Tapis stuff at the airline. https://www.tapiscorp.com/products/ultraleather/ It is easy to work with and I redid some of my panels a few years ago with it. 

Any good places to order "real" leather from? Just looking at all my options. 

cliffy Grand Master

cliffy

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11 hours ago, JimB said:

I agree and I am not that concerned with certs for a Car3 aircraft but I don't want any issues if and when I go to sell.

You may not  be concerned BUT you do need to state the manufactures qualification to a NATIONAL standard for flammability in your log book sign off. Your IA at the next annual time is required to see that reference in order to sign off the annual. Remember he's  signing off the entire airplane that it meets all airworthiness requirements. AND you will have to sign the airframe log book for the interior refurbishment if you do it. 

Also remember to keep track of the weights of each piece you upholster old and new as any weight change (in aggregate ) over 1 pound will need a new W&B sheet done by an &P. 

Its relatively cheap and easy to buy hides and then have a burn test done.  Search MS for the answers

A64Pilot Grand Master

A64Pilot

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JimB said:

Thanks for the information. Anyone have any leads on where to buy leather? 

I’ve honestly only done it once or twice, and then I had the upholsterer who was doing the work buy it, meaning I bought it from them.

A good shop can of course buy hides for less than you can, and an honest shop will increase the price only by a reasonable amount, just like any shop.

So Google prices for high quality hides, then you have an idea of the shop is marking up a reasonable amount or not, of course some may give you a good price on the upholstering and make their money on the hides. 

Funny thing with all the nonsense of Vegan leather etc. the price of hides is I believe at a low price, I guess these Vegans don’t realize cows aren’t raised for hides, they are raised for beef and the hides are sort of a by product, so going with plastic leather isn’t saving any cows? I’ve heard from the Wife that Women’s purses made from “Vegan leather” cost more than real leather. I’ve heard that  the best hides come from South America where there is no barb wire. Argentina maybe?

I like Ultraleather because it wore better for us on our boat that we lived on for four years than real leather would have, a boat is a tough environment for leather, just as an airplanes interior is.

Some issues are for real leather hides it’s very possible for there to be imperfections from say barb wire injuries etc and quality and grading are very subjective, so you I’ve been told get some hides that have bad sections in them and that may be tough to work around. Which brings up “protected leather” AKA “corrected leather” which I think is what most Auto seats are made from, it has a plastic covering that does keep the leather from staining and hides blemishes. “real’ or unprotected leather will darken from your body’s oils etc when you sit on it.

So if the shop buys it and isn’t happy with what they get I feel they are more likely to be able to exchange it. as They buy frequently from a supplier the you who will only likely buy this once.

Actual real leather I’d suppose if you needed a Cert of some kind would take a burn test to do it, The article I gave a link to was a little incorrect in that it stated a Certified Repair Station is where to get the cert done. They may can do the burn test, but then so can a DER who has that rating.

An IA could require a coupon to be sent off for a burn cert, as an IA myself I’d likely never think of it in a CAR 3 airplane, assuming it was well done I’d look at it and think wow that’s a nice interior as I know real leather easily meets CAR 3 standards, but knowing and proving are different things so to be super safe a burn Cert is the way to go.

As an IA I’d worry more about the foam and any plastic panels than leather, some plastics go up like gasoline.

Lot of rambling, sorry, but fake leather should come with certs if you ask as it’s a manufactured product, but I think real leather may have to be tested.

 

I think I’d give Katskinz a call. I have seen super work from them on high end sports cars, surely they will do your airplane seats? My bee ena get them heated :)

https://katzkin.com

Edited by A64Pilot
JimB Proficient

JimB

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34 minutes ago, Schinderhannes said:

https://izitleather.com/transportation/

We used izit. Comes with burn certificate - looks and feels like leather - but is significantly lighter. 

 

Interesting! That is the first I have heard of them. Do you know which product you used? 

ZIT® Leather XP

IZIT® LEATHER XP was developed for high traffic seating applications that require superior durability and stringent flammability performance. XP is commonly used in the aviation seating industry meeting all the required smoke/toxicity and flammability requirements. Oil Burn compliance requires the use of fire blocker fabric on the cushion assembly. See our stock color reference.

IZIT® Leather XP-A

Extremely Fire resistant and developed exclusively for airline seating applications. XP-A was engineered specifically to withstand the rigors found in high traffic commercial airline seating and easily meets the FAA oil burn specification. XP-A is commonly laminated to foams and is easily tailored into beautiful high service life seating.   We are currently stocking a blue and a grey for your ‘Quick Ship’ needs! See our stock color reference.

IZIT® Leather XRT

The new XRT was developed for aircraft seating and is oil burn compliant.  USA Made in our North Carolina Manufacturing facility, it is lighter weight than our XP-A.  You can expect the same high performance durability to ensure the life of your seating.   We are able to quickly develop your custom color! See our stock color reference.

 

JimB Proficient

JimB

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2 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

The Commercial stuff like this wears like Iron, think about how much wear an airline seat sees in a year for example.

Looks a lot like UltraLeather. 

cliffy Grand Master

cliffy

Posted
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To add a little levity-

In the Rolls Royce world there is no such thing as "leather"  its "Connolly Hides"    :-) :-) 

Nothing smells as nice as a new leather interior !  

Hank Grand Master

Hank

Posted
Posted
40 minutes ago, cliffy said:

To add a little levity-

In the Rolls Royce world there is no such thing as "leather"  its "Connolly Hides"    :-) :-) 

Nothing smells as nice as a new leather interior !  

What was it that Ricardo Montalban used to advertise for Plymouth? Some fake word to make fake leather sound expensive?

A64Pilot Grand Master

A64Pilot

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51 minutes ago, JimB said:

Looks a lot like UltraLeather. 

Sure it does, but there are many different grades of Ultraleather too, I forget the name of the grade I put in the boat, but it was made for areas like airport lounges, waiting rooms etc. high traffic areas. Sort of like car tires, they all look remarkably similar :)

Real leather does have a feel and smell that the plastic stuff just doesn’t replicate, the plastic is usually softer and more comfortable though, and if your sweating like in an airplane or on a boat it doesn’t absorb the sweat, or spills or sun tan oil or whatever. Even ink from a pen cleans right off of Ultraleather,it will outlast real leather.

‘Both of our current cars have real leather interior. both of them are 15 years old, and of I wasn’t treating them regularly with “hide food” I’m sure they would be all cracked up by now as leather dries up in the sun and heat from a vehicles interior.

https://www.connollyengland.com/products/connolly-hide-care-n-a  

You can get it on Amazon, it’s good stuff.

However on almost all cars the only part of the seat that’s leather is the part you sit and recline on. the sides. back and head rests are plastic

Edited by A64Pilot
Browncbr1 Grand Master

Browncbr1

Posted
Posted

i buy from leatherhidestore.com

based in NC.

will coordinate and ship to in-state perforation outfit if desired.

most any leather will pass burn.  I sent mine to skandia for only one of the part23 tests for $100

some hides have "other national standard" test sheet that comes with it.

 

Yetti Grand Master

Yetti

Posted
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3 hours ago, bradp said:

I buy my hides from leatherhidestore.com

they’re here in NC. Have a small storefront in Hillsboro.  

Same.   lots of good stuff there.    I did burn tests on the leather and it passed 3 tests using the same sample.   If the leather under my butt catches fire I have bigger issues.   I redid the all the lowers and baggage area in leather.    Which seams much safer than the fabric and cardboard that came from the factory.   the leather is aluminum backed.   Oh and I was bored and built a Ice Cooler

 

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JimB Proficient

JimB

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34 minutes ago, Yetti said:

Same.   lots of good stuff there.    I did burn tests on the leather and it passed 3 tests using the same sample.   If the leather under my butt catches fire I have bigger issues.   I redid the all the lowers and baggage area in leather.    Which seams much safer than the fabric and cardboard that came from the factory.   the leather is aluminum backed.   Oh and I was bored and built a Ice Cooler

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You didn't use a "Yeti" cooler? :D 

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JimB Proficient

JimB

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Thanks everyone. I did order some samples from IZIT. Kind of curious how their stuff compares to UltraLeather, especially the 4 way stretch stuff for wrapping panels and stuff. But i would like the seats to be real leather if I can so I'm also going to check out the leatherhidestore.com 

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