Slipping In Crosswind Landings

[bradp]

8 minutes ago, A64Pilot said:

That’s the C-140, it will do that with a 1/4 tank, but it only has one fuel pickup, I think many more modern aircraft have two per tank, does the Mooney?

Only aircraft I’m aware of that prohibits slips with flaps is the Fowler equipped Cessna’s, the 140 with its plain flaps has no such prohibition. I’d be surprised if a Mooney with its low wing, high mounted stab and plain flaps would have a prohibition of no slips with flaps.

It’s actually answered in the other thread 

POH from 80s J warns of fuel in-porting with 8 gal on the selected (and implied low wing) side. 
 

Bob Kormer talks about the short /pre-Porsche/ K and K and above behaving very differently. 
t

 

[carusoam]

Things to learn today...

One fuel pick-up per tank...

Close to the wing root....

In the back corner...

Just above the lowest corner of the tank...

Pretty much where the fuel sump drain is...

If you only have fuel in one tank....

If you Lower that wing in uncoordinated flight...

The fuel will run away from the fuel pick-up...

 

Have no fear...

You are on short final...

With so much excess energy...

You are slipping to lose the energy...

Having the engine not running is also helping lose the excess energy you have...  

Returning to wings level, or coordinated flight will have fuel being pumped to the engine in about ten seconds or so...

A long 10 seconds on short final when the fan goes silent...

PP thoughts only, all stuff I have read around here before...

Best regards,

-a-

[RobertGary1]

11 hours ago, carusoam said:

Things to learn today...

One fuel pick-up per tank...

Close to the wing root....

In the back corner...

Just above the lowest corner of the tank...

Pretty much where the fuel sump drain is...

If you only have fuel in one tank....

If you Lower that wing in uncoordinated flight...

The fuel will run away from the fuel pick-up...

 

Have no fear...

You are on short final...

With so much excess energy...

You are slipping to lose the energy...

Having the engine not running is also helping lose the excess energy you have...  

Returning to wings level, or coordinated flight will have fuel being pumped to the engine in about ten seconds or so...

A long 10 seconds on short final when the fan goes silent...

PP thoughts only, all stuff I have read around here before...

Best regards,

-a-

I agree. Although I’d point out you may be slipping for crosswind correction and not have excess energy. 

[jaylw314]

On 5/22/2021 at 4:14 PM, Hank said:

Go-ahead, I do too. We don't fly long bodies . . . . Even Bob Kromer warns against slipping long bodies with full flaps, but there's nothing wrong with a crosswind landing slip.

I never can remember which is a sideslip versus forward slip. 

Ha!  I'm glad I'm not the only one who can't remember that!  Not that there's actually much of a difference other than semantics and the FAA written test

I suppose you could land without cross controlling by doing crabbed landings a-la-737, but that seems unwise in Mooneys!

[carusoam]

Jay, you have done it!

You opened the crab and kick vs. slip discussion...

Now is that side crab or a forward crab...   

Both are good ...

One is better than the other... depending on who you ask.

PP thoughts only... not a CFI...

Best regards,

-a-

[Ibra]

First, there is a big confusion between asymmetric flying while turning (slip & skid turn) and assymetric flying while flying straight (forward sideslip), tightening the turn with the rudder will get you killed, straighten the turn with the rudder will keep you alive, staying straight with the rudder along runway axis is healthy and will keep you alive, the aircraft can be happy with flying straight with the ball lin the corner: it has gentle stall in that “stable config”

Second, if you are looking to climb or cruise, the ball needs to be in the middle, you have to center the ball before hopping power, it’s about “efficiency config”

For landing, you are looking for drag & stability, one way to get that is sideslip and you don’t have much choice for crosswind 

Now there are few caveats in various mid body and long body Mooneys POH regarding sideslip minimum fuel, losing airflow over elevator, I am not sure how much crosswind one need for these to be dominant but I think it’s north of +30kts crosswinds? if you are concerned about sideslip in a Mooney at 1000ft agl you can leave the side slip until you enter ground effect, you will find that it will stick you to the ground and burns speed quickly (zero bounce risk) and you have to maintain it on your ground roll, voila ! 

No need to debate crab vs slip (each one is useful and mixing both without thinking is the only way to land in 30ktsG40kts), however, someone who does not cross controls on ground contact on windy days will really need to go back to school (the exception are 300T aircrafts with funky wing differential or enveloppe protection that are rated to land with 40kts crosswind, zero drift correction and 3G impact) 

Edited May 25, 2021 by Ibra

[Richard Simile]

Hi Guys,

I think several folks are taking to intent of my article wrongly, it could also be the way I was writing or stating it. I am not a writer and I apologize for the "Lack Luster" writing.

When you spend 33 years demonstrating Mooney aircraft to people who unintentionally try to kill you, ya tend to pick up a few things along the way. 

Of course the Mooney slips fine. My comment were intended to be a risk mitigation measure and are congruent with Bob Cromer's comments on the subject. Fuel at ports is also a factor Blah, Blah, Blah........etc....etc..

Have a great weekend everyone !!!!

Richard A. Simile

www.thunderbirdaircraft.com 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Richard Simile
Typo

[carusoam]

On 5/28/2021 at 8:28 AM, Richard Simile said:

Hi Guys,

I think several folks are taking to intent of my article wrongly, it could also be the way I was writing or stating it. I am not a writer and I apologize for the "Lack Luster" writing.

When you spend 33 years demonstrating Mooney aircraft to people who unintentionally try to kill you, ya tend to pick up a few things along the way. 

Of course the Mooney slips fine. My comment were intended to be a risk mitigation measure and are congruent with Bob Cromer's comments on the subject. Fuel at ports is also a factor Blah, Blah, Blah........etc....etc..

Have a great weekend everyone !!!!

Richard A. Simile

www.thunderbirdaircraft.com 

Hey Richard!

Welcome aboard MS.

I missed your first post... (my bad)

Nice to see you here.

We had the opportunity to speak at the last Mooney Summit... 

Best regards,

-a-

 

[201Steve]

On 5/28/2021 at 8:28 AM, Richard Simile said:

I apologize for the "Lack Luster" writing.

Those were my words and I was referring to one specific article that was not yours in an attempt to generalize my thoughts on the decision making of who/what was being written about in the magazine. I have not seen the latest issue yet. Thanks for contributing to it, it is more than I can claim. 

[midlifeflyer]

On 5/25/2021 at 2:23 AM, carusoam said:

You opened the crab and kick vs. slip discussion...

Sigh.

[M20F]

If you are slipping to the left and the left tank is empty, switch to the right is the only issue I have ever had with slipping.