N261TA restoration

[Bartman]

Off topic but I bought a Kool Scoop but did not attach it to the side glass. I cut off the hinge and keep it in the pouch behind the passenger seat. If it is hot I pull it out and use it for taxi and it goes back in the pouch before takeoff. 

[Will.iam]

On 7/24/2021 at 6:24 PM, Gubni said:

Great article. I'd never do it without a very experienced copilot. Really first steps first and that's going to be just pattern work, lol

I wouldn’t do it at all. The T-37 tweet in the military was a trainer jet that could go to 35,000 plus but because it was unpressurized we had a limit of 25,000 ft and this is with a mask that clamps to your face via bayonets to your helmet and you breathed compressed oxygen that was forced into your lungs under pressure. We did altitude chamber up to 30;000 ft and when you take that mask off you are doing the funky chicken at 30 seconds and out in 1 minute. Sure some could go another minute before falling over but we were all in our 20’s and in the best shape of our lives. No way I could go even half that long at double the age now. At 28;000 if you lose oxygen and even if you pointed the nose down and got to 8000ft/min on the vertical speed you are 2 mins to 12;000 you will be unconscious before you get to an altitude that could support consciousness. There is a reason why even the military would not risk it even with a jet that could do 350kts straight down. 25,000 will be my max altitude and only then with a backup portable bottle next to me to allow me to breath on as I descend as fast as possible in the unlikely event I lose oxygen on my main system. 

[carusoam]

Great insight Will!

We have only one MSer that has successfully landed a Mooney while unconscious…

Proving that it is best to stay awake while flying a Mooney.

The higher you go, the more important your back-up O2 system becomes…

It can take a few minutes of emergency descent to get down to a breathable level…

E-descents can be dangerous if already in funky chicken mode… 

PP thoughts only, not a flight surgeon…

Best regards,

-a-

[Will.iam]

I wondered with a service ceiling of 38,700 ft in the T-37 who was the test pilot and what type of oxygen system / backup did he have when he flew it up there to find out what the max altitude was or did they just calculate that number? I tell you with 2 pilots on board getting to 25,000 to start your spin training the climb rate in the T-37 started to get anemic passing 18,000. I wouldn’t be surprised if the guy burnt most of his fuel by the time he got up to 38,000. 

[Gubni]

Thanks for all the input. Maybe we should break off the high altitude discussion to another thread. If possible I'd like to keep this thread about the restoration and as a reference in the future.

[ZuluZulu]

On 8/10/2021 at 8:25 AM, Bartman said:

Off topic but I bought a Kool Scoop but did not attach it to the side glass. I cut off the hinge and keep it in the pouch behind the passenger seat. If it is hot I pull it out and use it for taxi and it goes back in the pouch before takeoff. 

As a guy who has one sitting in the hangar but can't bring himself to install it for various reasons like interfering with the Jet Shades and blocking my view, your ideas intrigue me.  I'd love a photo or two please.

[Bartman]

I will post this one picture and out of respect for @Gubni will make this a one and done so that he can keep this thread on topic. After receiving the Kool Scoop I quickly determined this will not be permanently mounted on my side window. Using a Dremel I cut the hinge off at about the area marked in red and I rounded the corners and edges. The new material was too thick and the existing latch would not engage properly. Again using the Dremel the area marked in yellow required some removal of material so that the latch holds it in place. The hingeless scoop lives in the passenger seat pocket and used as needed. 

[MikeOH]

Hmm, if it is hot and I'm taxiing around, I just put out my left hand; If my name was Luke I could call it the Kool Hand Luke....

[Andy95W]

Here’s how my Kool Scoop came out. Works awesome. Wish I’d done this 25 years ago when I bought the stupid thing. 

[Will.iam]

Cool I’m going to grind my flap off too. It seems to stay even now with the flap on but will no doubt work better more flush with the window. 

[Gubni]

Today my registration was approved. It will show up on the faa site tomorrow so now I am going to start working on the ferry permit. I have all parts on hand other than hoses, then engine, and the starter. The engine should be almost done. The starter shipped yesterday and I still need to order the hoses.

[RJBrown]

Just for the record. 

Mod Works did not recertify any 231 airframes used for the “262” for 28,000’ the cost would have been prohibitive. 
The STC is about mechanical changes it does not affect the certified ceiling.
Rocket Engineering considered certification to a higher altitude but did not pursue it with the FAA. 
test flights had been done to 32,000 but the paperwork and engineering to get the results through the FAA proved financially daunting.

The altitude certification is not a restriction to part 91 operations. Flight above is legal.

[aviatoreb]

2 hours ago, RJBrown said:

Just for the record. 

Mod Works did not recertify any 231 airframes used for the “262” for 28,000’ the cost would have been prohibitive. 
The STC is about mechanical changes it does not affect the certified ceiling.
Rocket Engineering considered certification to a higher altitude but did not pursue it with the FAA. 
test flights had been done to 32,000 but the paperwork and engineering to get the results through the FAA proved financially daunting.

The altitude certification is not a restriction to part 91 operations. Flight above is legal.

That is my understanding that last sentence you said.  In part 91, is the certified a bit like demonstrated cross wind performance for landing?  The airplane has been shown to operate at a certain crosswind but it may well perform at a higher cross wind, no promises, but we are legal to try.  Although separate, when it comes to altitude, there would be rsvm to deal with if we were willing to try and venture to 29,000 ft even if the airplane were capable we would be forbidden.

[Will.iam]

12 hours ago, RJBrown said:

Just for the record. 

Mod Works did not recertify any 231 airframes used for the “262” for 28,000’ the cost would have been prohibitive. 
The STC is about mechanical changes it does not affect the certified ceiling.
Rocket Engineering considered certification to a higher altitude but did not pursue it with the FAA. 
test flights had been done to 32,000 but the paperwork and engineering to get the results through the FAA proved financially daunting.

The altitude certification is not a restriction to part 91 operations. Flight above is legal.

My POH states 28,000 is a limitation. Are you saying part 91 does not have to follow limitations?

 

[Gubni]

Guys please take this discussion to another thread. I'd like to keep this on topic about the restoration of my plane.

[RJBrown]

On 7/23/2021 at 5:34 PM, Gubni said:

According to the AFM ceiling for this one is 28,000

This statement is incorrect. 

2 hours ago, Gubni said:

Guys please take this discussion to another thread. I'd like to keep this on topic about the restoration of my plane.

Calm down, a little information to help you understand things and it elicits a take it elsewhere response. 
Your airplane is a 231 with an engine STC. It is not by any reality a Mooney 252.
If someone gave you a 252 AFM and said it fit your plane they were wrong.

AFM are written by the manufacturer and are serial number specific.

You own a 1980 Mooney 231 serial #M20K-0340
I think there is a lot of information out there that you are yet to learn.

‘Don’t close off knowledge, especially safety related knowledge.

A little thread creep might save your life some time in the future.

Good luck on the plane. Looks like it will be a wonderful machine when you get it flying.

Can’t say “finished” A love like this one will always need something new.

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Gubni said:

Guys please take this discussion to another thread. I'd like to keep this on topic about the restoration of my plane.

Thread creep happens, but there’s almost always something to learn.

Clarence

[EricJ]

12 hours ago, Gubni said:

Guys please take this discussion to another thread. I'd like to keep this on topic about the restoration of my plane.

I like following what you've got going on, but this is the internet, so it's going to be doing internet things.

Topic drift happens in normal conversations so it's a natural thing to happen.

 

[Marauder]

Thread creep happens, but there’s almost always something to learn.
Clarence

Like when fat people show up in a thread.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Marauder said:

Like when fat people show up in a thread.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

They always seem to show up when people need a good laugh.

Clarence

[M20F-1968]

You stated:  "Of course I want to go to IFR very soon. Its good to have goals, right?"

It is good to get your IFR certification right after getting your PPL.  However, recognize that at that point you are still a newly minted Private pilot and an even newer IFR pilot, flying a high performance plane.  This sounds like a potential recipe for an unexpected incident you might have been able to avoid if you had more experience.  When I got my IFR license, I used it to punch through cloud layers at altitude, and continued to fly with an instructor to practice approaches.  IFR skills are lost quickly, and need to be used to be safe and useful.  The new avionics are a huge help, but should not be a crutch.  It seems that no one ever practices partial panel flying any longer (whatever that means to you with your choice of back-up instruments).

Just wanted to make sure you were aware of the pitfalls.  

It seems that you are doing well on the project, are taking the proper steps with the airplane.  Just wanted to make sure you give proper consideration to the preparation and education of yourself as well.

Fly safe.

John Breda

 

 

[Gubni]

The engine is shipping out to me tomorrow. 

[carusoam]

9 hours ago, Gubni said:

The engine is shipping out to me tomorrow. 

Getting closer!

What does the schedule for hanging it look like?

Will you be part of the effort?

Take lots of pics… for future reference…

Post one or two around here….  

Best regards,

-a-

[Gubni]

4 hours ago, carusoam said:

Getting closer!

What does the schedule for hanging it look like?

Will you be part of the effort?

Take lots of pics… for future reference…

Post one or two around here….  

Best regards,

-a-

I'm not sure. My IA has tried to quit on me multiple times and encourage me to find someone else to finish the job. Every time I've replied back that I had total confidence and encouraged him to say that we'll get it done.

[Gubni]

After waiting a year I finally got an IA to come and put my engine in. Everything firewall forward was sent off and IRAN or simply replaced. They are here until Saturday the 22cd to get it in annual and install the engine. 

The first problem we have ran into is the donuts for the gear are flat. We definitely need to replace the mains and might as well do the front also. Where can I get the parts? They mentioned a special tool that may be needed to install them also.