Why have built in O2

[A64Pilot]

Honest question so don’t be offended, but why have it? It seems so many do, and want it.

‘Is is just me or is getting O2 filled a PIA? I seems you have to fly to and from major cities and frequent the fancy FBO’s to get fills, and then pay their price, then the maintenance issue.

A portable, even if you use it a lot seems to be so much easier.

 

Edited April 19, 2021 by A64Pilot

[irishpilot]

I like the size of a built in O2 tank. I can have four people on O2 and go for hours up high. I've never had much issue finding FBOs with O2. If you're trying to only go to county airports, then O2 may be an issue. 

 

Portable are easier/cheaper to refill, but the cost difference is small compared to other costs like Mx, fuel, etc.

[gsxrpilot]

Reasons I have built in O2

• I live in Denver so within 7K feet of O2 altitudes and by the time you leave the pattern to the west, you'll be higher than that.
• I fly a turbo Mooney which makes it easy to put yourself into O2 altitudes quickly.
• Always having the O2 option is worth the effort to have it built in and not have to load the tank, fittings, etc for each flight.
• Not having a portable bottle taking up space in the cockpit.

Solving the bottle filling issue

• Use a Pulse-Demand system. I use the Mountain High system which gives me 4X usage out of the bottle.
• Find a local maintenance shop that will refill the bottle. This is usually a cheap and easy option. There is a shop on my field that will come to my hangar and fill my bottle for about $60.
• Set up your own fill station. Or find a friend who has one. @Warren has a two bottle fill station in his hangar and has offered to fill my built-in bottle.
• Away from home, I often ask the FBO if they'll fill the bottle and how much it costs. On the rare occasion that it's in the reasonable range of $50 to $75, I'll usually have them fill it, if needed. 
• More often than not, I'll never need to fill it away from home because of the MH pulse demand system extends the use of O2 so much.

A recent example: @Vance Harral and I flew KBJC to KANK for brunch yesterday. We planned to cross the mountains below 14K ft and would only be at that altitude for a few minutes. The whole flight would only be 30 min. On the return trip, there were clouds moving in along the highest ridge lines causing some mountain obscuration.  While we had several options, one of them was to climb over the top. The tops turned out to be right at 18K. It was quick and easy in the Encore to climb on top. A quick call to ATC at 17,500 got us a pop up IFR clearance and permission to FL180. We had no intentions of climbing that high when we left the hangar that morning, but it was a nice option to have. It was also nice to just reach behind the seats, pull out the cannulas, plug into the ships O2, and keep going. If we'd been at FL180 or higher for more than just a few minutes, we'd have pulled out the masks that were on board also. 

I don't use all the capability in my Mooney on every flight, but having O2, always available, and easy to access, is one reason I like having it built-in.

[RJBrown]

Similar oxygen need story.

‘Flying home to Denver Centennial airport from SLC. In a rented 182 RG.

Between Meeker and Denver the lowest point to cross the front range is over Moffet tunnel/pass at just over 10,000.

After I passed Meeker I saw the clouds right down on the pass and picked up an IFR clearance. The clouds continued to get higher as I got closer to the pass. Figured a little actual wouldn’t hurt but the second I entered the clouds ice started to form. Center let me climb all the way up to 19,200’. Rode that mountain wave right over the top of the clouds. 
It was good thing I had a portable oxygen setup.

The first year, 1979, 231s were the only turbo Mooney that did not come with on board oxygen. Mooney learned that was a mistake real quick. From 1980 on all got oxygen.

 

[carusoam]

The question comes in two forms...

1) Why have O2...

2) Why have built in O2...

 

Over the years... we have defined individual requirements for using O2....  and individual signs of needing O2....  age, night, altitudes...

The reason for a built in system...

They are more likely to work as expected...

If you travel with other people... less hassle to verify everyone is getting the O2 as expected...

If you don’t like portable avionics, with wires going all directions... and having the plug fall out of the socket... 

Then portable O2 is really not for you...

 

People with built in O2 systems also have a portable O2 system.... As plan B...

 

So... it depends on how serious you are about flying with O2...

I would really like a built in system...

One day I might even buy a portable system...   

 

Not having a decent O2 system is pretty limiting when your bird can easily exceed 12,500’ and fly in the dark...

Best regards,

-a-

[larryb]

Why have 02?  Because virtually every flight is over 11.5K.  So many advantages to flying high. Very few disadvantages. 

Why built-in? Because it came with the plane. With the Mountain High O2D2 one full 115 cu-ft built-in tank lasts virtually a full year of flying. I calculate 11 psi per hour for two  people. If it didn't have built-in I would be OK with it, since a 24 cu-ft tank would last about 24 hours for 2. So 2 tanks would take me cross-the-usa and back. I have a transfill system in the hangar. I never have to worry about O2. It is always there and always ready. 

[skydvrboy]

I’m going to hijack this thread just bit. What exactly makes a system built in versus portable? I put together a very inexpensive portable oxygen system, but it would be easy to leave the tubes in the plane and remove the bottle. Would that make it built in? What if I ran the tubes behind the side panels and/or put two straps in the baggage compartment to keep the bottle from moving?

[carusoam]

sdb,

The Mooney built in systems...

1) Tank is mounted in the tail cone... in place of the Charlie weights...

3) On/off valve operated from remote next to the pilot...

3.1) 02 pressure gauge next to the On/Off control...

4) All plumbing is metal tubes and precision fittings....

5) O2 outlets... at the ceiling....

6) Filling the tank is an external connection... behind a small door.

7) Helps to have a low cost two tank (cascade) O2 system in the hangar for re-filling...  (details are around here)

8) read up on the various O2 sensors and back up systems people use around here...

 

All of This helps avoid O2 getting cut off for various reasons...  plastic hoses are really easy to kink... plastic fittings are famous for not fitting right, or falling out without warning...

We lost a Mooney pilot on the way to a MAPA training class in Atlantic City once...  because of an O2 problem... ran a fuel tank dry, landed in the ocean...

PP thoughts only...

Best regards,

-a-

[Cody Stallings]

O2 is not always a PIA an it’s not always just at the FBO’s.

When you operate in the thin air it is a must to have.

If you are only occasionally up high Portable will cover the task.

If it’s a very regular occurrence then a built in system is a must.

[carusoam]

Perfect pic to support the conversation Cody!

Best regards,

-a-

[pkellercfii]

I, too, own & fly a turbo Mooney in the US Intermountain West, and agree with all of the reasons Paul Steen stated for maintaining a built in O2 system. Having O2 always available can be an important safety issue.  The weather in the mountains can change mighty fast.

 

O2 refills are also far easier near & west of the Front Range  of the Rockies. The FBO at my relatively small, untowered home base in WA state can refill a built in O2 bottle. Ease of refills out west goes even farther than just availability: Out east, refilling an O2 bottle frequently requires one of the FBO's A&Ps. In the west, that's something line personnel are frequently trained to handle.  The refill is then priced accordingly.

 

--Paul Keller

 

[A64Pilot]

I still don’t see the advantage of built in, the portable is just too easy to take out to get filled or whatever, plus if there is any issue of leaks etc they are so easy to fix. But then O2 use for me is very infrequent.

I fill my own portable, if anything the portable is easier to fill as you carry the bottle to the tanks and don’t require much hose, remember you need to keep that hose and fittings “O2 clean”

‘Another question, for those that go above 18,000, your on a mask aren’t you, and when you are O2 use is horrendous as it’s free flow? I won’t go above 180 for that reason, although I have for test flights, plus my airplanes I’ve had were non turbo and dogs above about 150, so you don’t unless forced up there

Built in made more sense to me back when everyone wore masks and there were no magic pulse demand or ways to conserve O2, because such big heavy tanks were needed, but especially with pulse demand even small bottles can go a long time, so no need for a big heavy tank anymore

A portable is just as easy to have passengers use, why wouldn’t it be?

The major advantage of a portable to me is expense and not having a whole other aircraft system to maintain, there just is never any issue with leak tracing or hydro’s or having to buy expensive composite bottles etc. bottles are inexpensive enough to buy a new one if you want to, buy one and you’ll always have one when the other is out for hydro.

I think most have it and like it because it came in the aircraft, I doubt many would pay to have it installed. 

As I don’t often use it, I’m glad to not be carrying the dead weight around all of the time myself.

 

I do believe that out West fills are much less of a issue, on the east coast, its not so easy and when you do want it, you pay through the nose for it.

Some may consider $75 for a fill reasonable, but being a CB, I don’t, costs me I guess a couple of dollars, but I don’t know as I’ve never figured it out, but it’s nearly nothing.

Edited April 20, 2021 by A64Pilot

[ilovecornfields]

I use oxygen on almost every flight above 5000’ because it’s more comfortable. Having it built-in means I never have to think about it. I fill it once a year and all I have to do when I fly is turn the valve on when I start flying and off when I stop flying (and turn on the O2D2).

If you like your portable system that’s fine, but for me it’s nice to never have to think about it and always have it available.

[WilliamR]

Built in doesn't take up precious cabin space and lasts longer.  I'm big on a clean and uncluttered cabin.  

William

[kortopates]

You need O2 to get faster cruisin' TAS!

But since you ask, check pulse ox immediately - you might be low!!

Kidding
You're welcome to some O2 anytime!


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[geoffb]

So far, I wouldn't trade the built-in system.  For convenience it wins, hands-down.  In fact, just sold my 22 cu ft portable to a friend to fund a small, emergency system.  On 76 cubic ft I flew to Bakersfield and back in the high teens-low flight levels, then the wife and I flew to Palm Springs and back all above 15.5.  Something on the order of 28 man-hours flying being generous with the flows.  Still had gas left.  Was going to build my own system until I found out the local maint shop would fill me for $35.